DH wants us to care for MIL

[AlaskanSnow]

DH has asked if I would consider having MIL come and live with us.

She is 89, and in reasonable health for her age - no real conditions but she is frail, and is struggling to live by herself, is not eating properly and can no longer look after the house. Has recently been tested/CT scanned for dementia but her small periods of confusion/forgetfulness have been put down to migraines and she is now on medication for this.

We get on well, and she has stayed with us before for convalescence after minor surgery and again after a bout of pneumonia. We had no issues (although it was nice to get the house back to ourselves after)

So...what do I really need to be thinking about?
We can allocate a room downstairs to be her bedroom, and we have a downstairs bathroom so futureproof against potential mobility issues.
In terms of daily care, we would prepare meals, be on hand for when she showers in case of falls, and if she has a period of confusion one of us will be on hand to guide her through. It's also the company aspect. She'd rather be with us than in a home where she doesn't know anyone.
DH works full time, I work 2 days and SIL has said she can come and pick up MIL on those days. (She will also pay SIL for this time)

She would sell her house, and wants to pay us "going rate" to look after her - whatever that is? What is reasonable in these instances?
Presumably we just work out what our bills would increase by?
Or do we keep a log of the "caring" we do and charge an hourly rate?

We don't want to fall foul of any rules as if she does end up needing more care than we can provide in the future we know she will have to pay for this as she will have the funds from the house sale pretty much intact - I can't see that she would need to be paying us anymore than she would be getting in each month (and I doubt it would be that much)
Do we have to declare for tax?

I know it sounds weird that we would be "charging" but she is adamant that we aren't at a loss at all and she said if she didn't live with us she would have to pay out a lot more in care home fees.

Any info welcome.
I've said to DH it isn't a "no" but I do need to look into it in more detail.

I am not sure of allowances financially but I cared for the elderly for many years and this is a situation I may find myself in with dh mother perhaps (I am not sure)

It is a lot to think about. One thing I would suggest is a regular out sourced/ night nurse when the time comes.

Well going rates £600-800 a week. Depending on area.

It's great that your DH wants to look after his mum but he works full time and the reality is that you will end up being her full time carer only being 'off' when at work yourself. Are you ok with that?

Not sure about the payments.

An old person who develops dementia becomes your whole life. Is your DH prepared to devote his life to his DM?

Just saying.

I think it's a really kind thing to consider, but don't under-estimate what a huge commitment it is.

My Mum moved in to a 'granny flat' in our home when my Dad died, and was with us for a number of years until she passed away earlier this year. We nursed her at home, and would not have had it any other way.

But there was so many times we refused invitations, or curtailed trips, because we didn't want to leave her alone too long or too late.

She was also the most respectful and loving person in the world - she would never come in to our part of the house without knocking etc., but I was obviously very aware that she spent many hours alone, and in the latter years, used to spend probably a couple of hours each evening watching tv with her and chatting, which was not great for DH and I. (We survived - I think he'd like some of the peace back now! )

Also maybe allow for her to go to SIL for some weekends/holidays to give you a break in your own home - you sometimes need that.

Hope there are one or two thoughts here that might be helpful - and you must be a fabulous DIL to consider this.

I was in a related situation, not exactly the same. I'd suggest getting some extra paid for care in every week from the outset so you all get used to that, could just be one afternoon someone to get to know DMIL chat, go out, cook with or whatever suits everyone. Also, perhaps just a week every 6 months initially have a live in carer doing everything so you can either go away or simply have a week completely 'off' again initially just to get everyone used to and geared up for that sort of help.

It's wise to make a fair both ways financial arrangement, perhaps SIL could help you figure out how to assess what would be reasonable all round.

How much caring would DH really be doing if he works full time? I would suspect the vast majority will fall to you, would you be happy with that?

Thank you for the responses so far.

To answer - she doesn't need that much "care" just yet. It's more keeping an eye on, making sure she eats and by living with us she doesn't have to manage the house/finances etc. She isn't ill and doesn't have any conditions (presently, I'm aware her age means this can change quickly).

I've said that if "care" is needed then we get professionals in - so if she needs daily personal care it gets paid for. I'm happy to be company/cook etc (after all I do that anyway) plus administer medicine of needed but not personal care. I think she'd be embarrassed by that from me anyway unless it was an one off. (I've looked after her while vomiting before during a bug)

SIL has said she can move in if/when we go on holiday, which is usually twice a year and is happy to do other cover if needed.
Mil doesn't need 24 hour supervision, by any stretch - we can easily go out in the eve for example.

I quite like the suggestion of getting someone in one afternoon a week to build a bond with - almost like borrow my granny?

So far, it seems not unfeasible...

I've been trying to google about what is allowed for payment but can't seem to find anything. Does anyone have any suggestions where I could look?
I keep ending up on carers allowance which isn't applicable.

I would take very careful advice on this - especially the financial side so that you can be sure that you cannot be accused of evading inheritance tax etc.

Also be very sure about what you are able to take on as elderly people can decline suddenly at this age my own DM went from independent living, driving and going to to the gym to being bedbound, confused and unable to be left at all in the space of 18 months. If she declines who will be giving the 24/7 care and changing incontinence pads etc?

She isn't anywhere near the inheritance tax threshold - it's more the council being funny if she needs to go into a care home in the future and her own money runs out - I think it is deprivation of assets?

We can "bill" her, but not sure what is allowable and also considered reasonable. We aren't out to fleece her but she insists she wants to pay us (and SIL) fairly.

You sound lovely to be prepared to do this and it would be much nicer than a care home. Going rate in care home is about £500 a week. But presumably you would not charge that because living with you is not a care home.

This is something I need to consider in the future with my MIL.

I would be inclined to say yes but also have outside carers come in so the care is shared while you're still working.

Obviously, this is your decision to make with your husband and you need to work out the pros and cons of this.

You can rent a room in your house and receive £7,500 per year without having to pay tax under the government rent a room scheme. She could also give you a contribution towards the food bill.

It would be a good idea for her to pay her way as it would legally reduce the amount of money she has left when calculating how future care is funded.

You don't need to 'bill' her. If she's living with you it's perfectly reasonable that she pay rent and expenses. That would not be considered deprivation of capital.

She's allowed to spend her money as she wishes- it's still her money - and would only be considered deprivation of capital were she to be seen to deliberately give it away to avoid possible future care costs.

She can reasonably pay rent etc. She could buy you a car if it was to be used to take her around. She could pay for home improvements e.g. a wet room. Things for living! (If the car was a Ferrari you might have an issue!)

As for getting someone in to 'build a bond' I find that care agencies have high staff turnover so that might not work. What about her going to a day centre 1/2 days a week so she's not home with you on all of your days off? Company for her and freedom for you. They tend to cost £45-55 a day with lunch and sometimes transport included.

If she late becomes more frail and has memory problems she can apply for attendance allowance and you might qualify then for cares allowance (if earning under £116pw).

Good luck!

Please schedule in some free time for yourself - not just work.

I wouldn't even consider if I could do this based on how your MIL is now - I would be considering it based on how she might be in 5 years.

I would also be aware that she might be very far down the list for help etc because there's someone there to do it. And it won't be your DH. The reality is that you probably will end up doing some personal care - she's not going to go from continent
to incontinent overnight and you're not instantly going to be able to find someone to come in or find a care home to take her. There might be months of transition of you having to do personal care.

This is looking increasingly like it is going to happen, probably not before xmas, as we need to decorate the room for her.
She is still doing well - we were out all day with her yesterday and other than tiredness she was very well in herself, just needed a bit of support when walking etc, so no declines as yet.

I've said that we need to allow in the budget for one "respite" weekend a month, where either we go away, or she goes elsewhere (Sil, or a short stay in a home) to give us privacy and time to ourselves, plus either one full day or 2 half days on my non working days for time to myself.

If further care is needed in the future, either she will be paying for the additional support or she may eventually need more than we can offer, in which case she would go into a home. She would be self funding this, so could move as/when it becomes necessary.

Lasting POAs are now in place ready for if/when she has a loss of capacity.

Also, she felt very strongly about strangers owning her house (she was born there) so DH and SIL will be buying the house from her, and she is gifting the 25% deposit out of equity. They will get a buy to let mortgage and rent the house out.

Any monies that are paid out to us/SIL/external carers would currently easily be met by her income, so the capital would sit there untouched until such a time that the costs for care increase. Even if she needs to pay for residential care, we've calculated that she would have enough capital to pay for 5 years care assuming the highest level based on a care home near us.
If, at that point the council get funny about deprivation of assets (the gifted deposit) then in theory the property would have increased in value so they could release the equity to "repay" the gift.
If not, they can sell the property to release the funds - but that point DMIL wont have a clue and would be none the wiser.
Assuming she lives that long anyway.

You've been really helpful so far - any glaring problems within that plan you can see?

On the basis of use it or lose it, if your MIL is preparing meals, making cups of tea at the moment, I would get her to carry on, at least some of the time. Also, you don't mention her friends and other relations (apart from SIL), do you live near enough to her old home for her friends to pop in or for her to visit.

Thinking practically consider trip hazards like rugs she might not be used to and lighting.

I do think it's likely you will end up doing more than you envisage, just by being the one on the premises most of the time. I know three people who have / had parents live with them over 20 years. One lived to 102 I think. Until his final few years he was pretty independent if very deaf and used to like a cup of tea at about 4.30am. He did get confused at the end but died comfortably in his sleep at home.

You are doing a very kind thing. Look after yourself. I hope it goes well.

I'm not sure that you need a formal agreement as far as "payment" goes. How much does she spend on groceries/electric etc while living alone? Agree that as a figure and set up a regular payment from her account to yours when setting it up call it food & utilities then if any issues are ever raised you have a paper trail.