Car seat solutions for going abroad

[pom88]

I was hoping someone fairly knowledgeable about car seats or someone with some experience of this situation might be able to offer some suggestions. We are about to book a summer holiday in Europe with a well known company offering packages. It will involve a transfer from the airport which is likely to be around an hour long. This could well be a coach transfer but could also end up being a mini bus or taxi transfer depending on numbers of people going to the resort. This will involve some motorway and also some mountain roads. Last year, we travelled to the same country but a different resort and the travel company told us that they'd expect us to travel without car seats. Initially I felt ok about using the coach without child seats as the journey last year was only 30 mins and had no motorway but they couldn't guarantee it would be a coach and said it could be a minibus or a taxi which I felt really unhappy about. Wbe ended up spending a LOT of time in discussion between ourselves and them and eventually booked a private transfer through them and they had two high back booster seats they let us use and keep in the hotel room for the fortnight so we could use them again on the return journey. I actually wasn't overly impressed with the seats but they were better than nothing and I was glad my older child wasn't only in a backless booster which is what a lot of the taxi companies seemed to be offering for her age (5 at the time).

As a family who takes car safety really seriously and have invested a lot in high spec car seats and extended rear facing etc. I find this really stressful and am not sure what to do for the best.

I am wandering whether it's actually better to buy two child seats I'm happy with (I wouldn't take our own more expensive seats incase they get damaged and they are also very heavy) and travel with them and fit them to the coach or minibus etc. But if we are doing this, would we also need a private transfer still because what if those seats can't be fitted in the coach for various reasons, including the possibility of there only being lap belts.

Or do I push for the same solution as last year - private transfer and car seats loaned to us from the travel company.

We won't be using a car at all when we are there for the two weeks. We may end up on buses but not for long journeys, just up and down a valley and I equate this to hopping on a public bus locally so try not to worry as much about this. The car seats, whether loaned to us or purchase by us , would just sit in the hotel room until the return transfer back to the airport.

I am aware most people would put their children on the coach/minibus/taxi without car seats and I'm not judging that at all but I'm just a worrier and like to minimize risk as much as possible. I just don't feel comfortable with a 3 and 6 year old in minibus or taxi with no car seat. Even with a coach, I'd feel happier with carseats, especially for the youngest.

Thank you in advance for any advice or suggestions!

I think you’ll never find an easy solution to this. I’m older now, my DC grew up in the time when car seats were only compulsory for the first ( very) few years.

Have you considered taking a family holiday where you can get to in your own car ? Drive to France or Spain? You’d have your own seats with you and confidendce that they are correctly fitted.

If it's an issue close to your heart then i'd definitely look at buying your own or looking at renting them there IF you can hire a specific brand. The ones we've been given when you just hire the correct size but no brand have been absolutely the cheapest flimsiest things.

To be honest my solution to this is I don’t book holidays which involve transfers I’m not comfortable with.

But in this scenario I’d probably book a private transfer and take seats with me.

I'd arrange a taxi (probably cheaper to sort yourself?) and take your own car seats. Cybex Solution G2 would be good for your older child. Equally if just one return transfer, you could take a Trunki Boosterpak type thing.

Tbh I'm like you, very keen on car seats, my daughter ERFd until 7.5. But for abroad I think there needs to be a slight appetite for risk. After all you are already in an unknown vehicle, in a country where the roads / drivers might not be as safe. For trips involving lots of driving, we take the Cybex. For a trip involving only a return transfer, I'm considering the Boosterpak (just ordered it).

Our solution to this was to book private transfers and take a car seat. Coaches even with seat belts arent alwayd suitable for car seats.

We took a becool foldy. Tinyseats 2 would allow you to rear face the 3 year old depending on their height and weight. But its pricey.

When dealing with lap only belts, there is an argument that a booster seat increases risk because it places the child higher and slightly more forward which increases their risk of impacting on other items in the vehicle, which is increased with a lap belt because nothing is restraining the upper body. This is the reasoning that all booster seats state that they must only be used with a 3-point seatbelt, not a lap only belt. However the evidence doesn't give a clear consensus either way. Booster seats help position a seatbelt better over the child's hips/thighs rather than the soft abdomen, so there's an argument to use them together for that reason.

Booster seats (even backless) are worth using with a 3-point seatbelt.

I don't think there are any ERF seats on the market any more which can be fitted with just a lap belt (+ tethers) - there used to be. I have a feeling Nachfolger World might be able to be fitted with a lap belt and brace on the seat in front in a pinch, (the manual states that this is only to be done on a dashboard) but not 100% sure, plus it's expensive and only up to 18kg.

You could take something, and if there is a 3-point belt then use it, if there is only a lap belt, then use the lap belt as better than nothing, even for a 3yo. The compartmentalisation of a coach, with the smallish gaps between seats, is also a positive if there is an accident, and so is the physical size and weight of the vehicle - in any collision, accident force is much more impactful on the smaller/lighter vehicle. BTW, if you end up with a child on an adult's lap, never share the seatbelt. The adult should wear the seatbelt and the child should not.

You could consider Tinyseats 2 if there is a possibility of having access to isofix, this would allow possibly both children to RF and can later be used as a high back booster, however again it's a pricey option.

Borrowing the HBBs from the hire company sounds like a reasonable approach. If you wanted to take your own, there are folding HBBs available, the Cybex one mentioned plus Maxi Cosi Tanza i-size and a couple of others by Becool/Recaro. Or you could get something cheap and basic, like Graco Junior Maxi (the R129/i-size version is much better than the old version) and separate the backrest and seat parts for transport.

But TBH, the Maxi Cosi one didn't get a fantastic ADAC score - it was definitely better than nothing, but not as good as you'd hope - and the others haven't been tested (apart from Axkid Up which is extroadinarily expensive too). A HBB is mainly a belt positioning device - the condition and model does make a difference, in that a poorly designed one will often route the belt in a less optimal way or be harder to adjust correctly, but cheap/old doesn't necessarily mean it will be badly designed. Some of the cheaper models are absolutely fine and do a fine job. There is even research showing the side wings are much less important than previously thought because in real life crashes, drivers tend to brake in anticipation of impact, which moves passengers forward and outside the reach of the side wings. So the standard crash test to test side impact protection is not necessarily realistic for forward facing seats/HBBs in particular.

There is a vest sold in USA called Ride Safer Travel Vest. This can be used in combination with a 3-point seatbelt, it doesn't meet European car seat standards, but that wouldn't necessarily matter as the three transport options you describe are usually exempt from car seat requirements anyway. I don't really understand how it works to redistribute crash forces, but the US regulation has approved it, and if you could get a legitimate version of this imported, it would be more portable and might be better than nothing. Be careful of copycat versions though as these have no regulation.

Try to bear in mind that people survived car accidents even before car seats/seatbelts were a thing, and that an accident is very unlikely to happen. I definitely understand your reasoning and agree that in an ideal scenario, more protection is better but try not to let worry about this override your joy of the holiday. Do what you can, but also try to make peace with understanding that the risk is low to begin with. Sometimes catering to anxiety like this makes it worse which can then become more restrictive over time. So just to say look after yourself with it as well

Thank you everyone for your replies!

@WinoTime Yes absolutely, that's been a thought we'd had. But ultimately we also love this destination in the mountains and think it's such an ideal holiday for children so it's a tough one!

@KnickerlessFlannel @ChanceOfALifeLine @TheLette @Antsinmypantsneedtodance Thank you, I think this is probably the route we will end up going down. I think booking a private transfer now will then give us the choice to either ask for the holiday company seats or take our own and some time to mull that over. I think I'm right in thinking we could take two car seats on an EasyJet flight at no extra cost? We aren't taking a pram or cot or anything like that.

@BertieBotts Wow! You are so knowledgeable. Thank you so much. I found your reply extremely reassuring and very informative. You are definitely right that catering to anxiety can make it worse! I am guessing I could ask the travel company whether they know that their seats are in good condition//haven't been in any accidents and make a decision about whether to use theirs or bring out own depending on the confidence their response gives me! I do remember the seats we were given were Mothercare ones and definitely not new but seemed clean. We re-fitted them in the taxi as we could tell they hadn't been done very well and it was only a 30 mins journey with no motorways so I felt ok.

Yes we take car seats on easyJet flights regularly. No extra charge. Also if you get one of those massive car seat bags you can add other stuff, they don't check or complain. Don't go crazy but we've included stuff like towels, nappies, inflatables, raincoats.