Akid Mini Kid 4 Max xs Maxi Cosi Emerald 360 Pro

[Daisies104]

Hi all, looking at the next car seat for my 11 month old to purchase around January. Wondering if any thoughts on the two seats above? Only difference is the MC swivels but the Akid is Swedish Plus Tested so probably better with the Akid? What puts me off is it doesn’t have the forward face option and I don’t know if my DD will eventually refuse to FF without huge tantrums (which is dangerous in the car) or gets car sick etc? Ideally would RF for as long as I can but seems a gamble to not have any option at all to FF.

Do you know what centiles your daughter is on currently? That will give you an idea when she might outgrow the harness on the seats you’re looking at. The Maxi-Cosi has a 17kg or 105cm limit on the harness, which if your child is above the 50th centile for weight or height, they will outgrow before they are 4 years old, and so you will likely need to purchase another harnessed seat as they will unlikely be ready for a HBB. The HBB mode on the Maxi-Cosi is unlikely to last long as multi stage seats generally don’t have a decent enough back length to accommodate children beyond the bare legal minimum.

The Axkid seat has a harness limit of 125cm and has the tallest shell on the market, so you will get greater longevity with this seat.

I wouldn’t place too much worry on whether your daughter will refuse to RF. You have to be the parent if this situation arises. You clearly understand the importance of RF and you have to explain that to your child in a way they understand.

Given the choice, I’d go with the Axkid every time. It offers considerable increased safety for longer and better value for money.

@FamilyAreEverything thank you so much that makes sense! She is 50th at the moment. Do you have any thoughts on the BeSafe iZi Modular X1? From my chat gbt conversation, it looks to be the highest rated for a seat that can go forward and back?

With the Axkid, what model is the best? I am looking at the One 3 but wondering if an all in one is a good way to go

So if you’re looking for a rotational seat, then yes, the BeSafe is better, although it still has the low harness limit of 18kg or 105cm. If your daughter remains on the 50th centile, then she will likely outgrow this at around 4 1/2. Ideally you’d want her to be 5 years old before you consider using a HBB. You’d need to base as well as the seat, so you’re looking around £350, so again if you can stretch the budget for the Axkid Minikid 4, then personally that’s what I would do.

The Axkid One 3 is another great seat which would offer great legroom room for your daughter as she grows. It has the same harness limit for height as the Minikid 4, although a shorter shell. The weight limit on the harness is again much lower, but I wouldn’t worry too much about that as 23kg will still get you to around 7 years old in a 50th centile girl. Personally I couldn’t justify the extra £200 for the isofix unless I was needing to move the car seat very regularly. Speaking of which, you can always buy an extra set of lower tethers to make moving a tethered seat quicker if needs be.

In your position I’d look to try the seats in your car and work out which one you feel fits best. An independent retailer is always a good one to try. I’d avoid anywhere like Halfords or Smyths (who don’t stock the vest majority of these seats anyway).

If you want the option for ERF and also to forward face if ERF doesn’t work out I think the best options are the BeSafe Beyond 360 or Avionaut Stardust. Neither are Swedish Plis tested because any seat which has a forward facing capability can’t be, but the RF only versions of each seat are Plus tested if you’re happy to extrapolate from those results.

The Beyond 360 both rear and forward faces to 125cm or 22kg whichever comes first. It’s expensive though as you need to purchase the base and the seat.

The Stardust rear faces to 125cm or 21kg, but only forward faces with the harness to 105cm, then has to be used as a booster seat so if your child is taller then you might want longer with a harness.

I’ve seen admins of a car seat group I’m in say they’ve never seen a child with a good fit in the Emerald.

I'm not very keen on the Emerald, it's one of those seats which combine all the stages into one, and as a result you get compromises in all of the stages.

If you are really really keen on this concept, Avionaut Stardust is a better option because the rear facing mode lasts longer. It's not a huge amount more expensive, and it's cheaper than the Axkid One3. I feel like this would tick a lot of boxes for you from what you've said so far - worth a look?

Chat GPT is possibly out of date on the Besafe izi Modular X1 being the highest rated RF/FF model according to currently comparable ADAC tests. It is on the top of one of the tables I have (which has REALLY confused me, because this is based on a fairly spurious calculation I did - so I'm intrigued as to how ChatGPT came to this conclusion) but that's only current up to Spring 2023. At a very quick glance, I believe Joie i-Spin 360 and Cybex Sirona T outperform it, however I do need to go through and update everything with the more recent test results.

Bear in mind this is a bit of an inexact thing and ADAC don't test every single model on the market, so I wouldn't put too much store on it definitely being the safest seat anyway. ADAC can give you a rough idea of how a seat performs compared to other similar ones, but it's hard to compare across categories and you don't really want to be using it as an absolute measure.

The izi Modular is also not a spin seat, it's a slightly older model, (it was tested in 2020) and it's one where you use the base you've had from a baby seat, so you'd have to buy the base assuming you don't already have a Besafe izi Modular base. You can install the seat in either direction, but you don't get the spin function. It's a good, well made and well rated seat, but it's not the best thing you can buy for the money IMO.

There is a version of this (Modular A X1) which has an auto-tightening harness, which is a really nice feature, especially if you're likely to use the seat forward facing in the future, but it's fairly niche and not necessary if you tighten the harness properly yourself.

Besafe have a spin model which doesn't need a separate base, called Besafe izi Turn. That is my favourite out of the spin seats up to 105cm, but it is usually too expensive for people to choose it compared with other models. It's especially good for cars with sloping back seats and low-down isofix points, because it uses its own method of levelling to achieve the correct angle independent of the vehicle seat. However any belt fitted seat e.g. Axkid Minikid, and Axkid One also achieve this (in their own ways).

Then there is also Besafe Beyond which is a spin seat (plus separate base) which goes up to the 125cm. Price for seat + base is similar to the Axkid One3.

Or as different direction - you could look at a cheaper spin seat to 105cm with a good safety rating, like Cybex Sirona Gi i-size, or Britax Dualfix Plus, or Maxi Cosi Mica Eco, or even a Plus tested spin seat up to 105cm (Joie Spin Safe, Britax Swingfix Plus, Axkid Spinkid, Besafe izi Twist) and when your child gets close to 105cm, make the judgement whether you want to continue rear facing (in which case, a cheaper more basic but still plus tested model like Britax Safe Way M or Axkid Minikid 2 or Minikid Core), continue forward facing with a harness (several models available with harness over 105cm just recently; in three years there are likely to be more) or move into a high back booster.

On 50th centile, 105cm should get you to about age 4.5 - so any of the options would be a good choice, and if you decided to FF at say age 3 instead, you could look at seats with a FF harness which convert to high back booster, which is combining less stages into one.

In terms of Plus testing on the Besafe Beyond and Avionaut Stardust, only the Besafe Beyond B appears on this list. Avionaut seem to be listed here as Karwala, but the only 125cm seats that they have with this test are the Sky and Q, at least currently.

It might be it's still in processing but I would take with a pinch of salt - I have seen this previously with models that hint towards a plus test pass criteria but then it mysteriously all disappears from all their press and is never heard of again.

(Link would not attach)

https://www.vti.se/en/services/laboratory-and-testing/crash-safety-testing/child-restraint-systems/the-plus-test/plus-tested-models

Thank you so much @BertieBotts and @toastofthetown ! I am looking at all the recommendations, is the BeSafe Beyond 360 Car Seat - Sea Green Melange
6m to 6y | Rear-facing, only a ERF seat? I can’t see any mention of FF?

Can I check, is the harness point for FF because it’s not advised to have a 5 point harness unless ERF?

Sorry and for ERF, I don’t know anyone who does this beyond 15 months. I mentioned it to my parents and they find it silly and worry about her being cramped. Does anyone here ERF? I would like to but don’t want her to be constantly upset and uncomfortable as the distraction of that would be pretty unsafe

I also can’t see any mention ADAC score for the stardust?

That’s the exact car seat we have waiting for when the baby outgrows his baby seat. The 360 version is the one which forward faces too, the standard Beyond doesn’t. And there’s a mechanism to stop it turning too early so the headrest needs to be at a certain position to allow it to turn.

Your later post on legroom, the Beyond base has three settings, two of which allow more legroom. I haven’t tried it yet because the infant seat requires it to be on the minimal legroom setting. All children are different but children generally are happy to sit with their folded, or resting on the seat back in front of them. They can find forward facing less comfortable because their legs are just dangling with nowhere to put them on, but every child is different.

Yes, we ERF our son until he was over 7 years old. He’s 75th centile for height too, and all legs. He never once complained of being cramped or uncomfortable. Once he started school he was aware that no-one else was rear facing in their cars. He asked about it once, and I told him that mummy and daddy had read that it was safer for him to travel RF for as long as possible. He never questioned it again. We had a mirror so he could still see out of the front, but we also used to get a full commentary on what was going on behind us too.

I’m sorry that your parents are referring to your plans to keep your daughter as safe as you can in the car as “silly”. We were fortunate that both sets of grandparents didn’t question our choice of car seat, although they recognised it was different to when my husband and I were babies (unrestrained in a carrycot on the back seat anyone?!) I’d simply say that there is an increasing volume of research that supports rear facing for longer, and this is what you have chosen for their granddaughter.

@FamilyAreEverything that makes a lot of sense, thank you! Can I ask, what car seat did you choose for ERF? And I saw a photo of me in a carrycot, it’s crazy!

I rear faced mine until 5.5, and only stopped then because younger sibling had outgrown the 18kg 105cm at 3.5 and I made the decision not to buy a second a kid minikid.

At no point did my children complain about squished legs. My parent was also a nay sayer but remember we didn’t even have car seats passed the baby seat and when they were children they didn’t even have seat belts in the back. Technology moves on.

At some point you’re going to need to buy a high back booster 1 per child and it’ll last until they don’t need one anymore (baring needing to replace due to accident) It doesn’t matter if you buy that at 4 or 7. If you buy and extended rear facing seat you can choose to stop using at 4 or 5 or 6 if you want and go to a booster. If you buy a seat that is 18kg rear facing seat then you have to decide a 4 (or possible younger) if you want to put them in a booster then or buy a erf seat.

We had a BeSafe Stretch in the end. We started with a BeSafe iZi Plus X1 (25kg) which our son outgrew at 5 by his torso height. We decided that we didn’t think he was mature enough for a HBB and so we then purchased the Stretch. Had the Stretch been around when he outgrew his infant carrier we would have gone for it straight away and saved ourselves the cost of the iZi Plus. I guess this wouldn’t have been an issue if we had another child to pass the iZi Plus down too.

We actually kept him RF in the Stretch to 128cm, which is above the 125cm limit of the seat, but he was no where near the 36kg weight limit. We had some long car journeys to make on motorways and fast single carriageway roads, so we weighed the up the risks and felt he was safer in the Stretch.

The Stretch is a brilliant seat. It can be reclined in situ, rather than some of the other seats that can only be reclined if you uninstall and then reinstall the seat. It can be space hungry compared to others. We had it in a Skoda Superb, which has a big rear cabin, but only on the second click for leg space which was fine for our leggy child. And my 6ft5 FIL could fit in the passenger seat fine.

The Avionaut Stardust has only come out recently and hasn't been ADAC tested yet. ADAC don't test every seat on the market, anyway.

Besafe Beyond 360 is a 360 degree seat - it can be used FF or RF. There is an ERF only version, which is just called Besafe Beyond.

It looks like it has quite good leg room for RF, so do most of the seats by Axkid and Besafe.

is the harness point for FF because it’s not advised to have a 5 point harness unless ERF?

I am not sure I understand exactly what you're asking, sorry - is this about the Stardust? I think it's probably to do with being able to register it as i-size, maybe. It is possible to have seats which harness up to 125cm FF, because the Besafe seat does it.

Some people say that if you're FF it's better to have a child in a seatbelt rather than a 5 point harness but I haven't really found any evidence which backs this up. I did hear that it was a myth which was put out by the companies wanting to promote impact shield seats as an alternative to ERF, so possibly that's where it comes from.

It's true that rear facing is safer than forward facing, but there doesn't seem to be much evidence showing that a seatbelt is safer than a 5 point harness, there is some evidence in the opposite direction (showing a 5 point harness is better) particularly for children under 4 or under 18kg. Once they are bigger/older than this, there just isn't really much good evidence either way as to whether the 5 point harness or seatbelt is better.

Hi @BertieBotts , please could I borrow some of your wisdom again! I am wondering if you would recommended the Axkid Spinkid or Joie Safe (both plus tested), keen for the spin feature and then will upgrade again when she grows out of it.

Out of those two I think the Axkid Spinkid probably has the edge, it has better leg room (still not as much as a larger ERF seat) and the inserts in the Joie seats can be a bit tricky. At 11 months you won't need the insert in the Spinkid, but you might still need the wedge in the Joie seat for example.

We had the Joie 360 Spin, and found leg room was tricky from around 2 years old although people do use them longer, if you're particularly concerned about leg room, it might not be the best choice.

It looks like John Lewis stock both, if you have a store near you possibly you could try both of them out?

Britax Swingfix M Plus is also worth comparing, it's between the price of the two of them, has a slightly higher weight limit (105cm/20kg) and I always think they are nice seats to use. It's plus tested as well. If you can't find the Swingfix in stock to test out, you can also compare Britax Dualfix M Plus which is identical to the Swingfix except that it has the full 360 - can be used forward facing as well.

Besafe izi Twist is also plus tested and nice, but it is quite a bit more expensive.

@BertieBotts thank you again! Sorry I’ve now gone back to the idea of FF and RF options. Is there a seat you know of that has past the plus test in to RF version and the RF and FF is very similar to it? I think it is be safe beyond 360 or Aviont Stardust, would you recommend those?

Yes to the Besafe Beyond 360, although this is v expensive as needs the base too, also Besafe izi Turn (v similar to Besafe izi Twist).

Avionaut Stardust apparently has been plus tested for the RF only version but the results are not up on the site yet and they don't have the badge displayed on their own website, so I can only say take it with a pinch of salt until that is up. It does sound likely to be true from what I've heard.

Britax Dualfix is very similar to Britax Swingfix, which is plus tested.

The Joie seats are notable that they had to change the seat from the 360 version to get it to pass the plus test, so I wouldn't say they are comparable exactly.

OTOH any rear facing seat is a safe option, even if it's not plus tested.