Toddler car seat for non-car owners?

[DignityIntact]

Hihi, first post here, so feel free to let me know if I've violated any etiquette! Apologies for the post length, but our circumstances are quite "unique".

Our son is 18 months (about 80-85 cm & 12.5 kg). We live in France and don't have a car (city-based). Until very recently we had got by with an infant car seat borrowed from a colleague (Cybex Atom 5) that we used precisely 4 times: to get him home from the hospital, on a daytrip to Germany, once to the hospital when the trams weren't working and finally last month for a wedding. Now he's getting older, I've joined a local car-sharing scheme and it was evident from our last trip that he needs a new seat. Cue getting drowned in research/forums/guidelines!

Our major issue is that since we don't own a car, separate isofix bases/legs and seats even bordering on "chunky" are out of the question (the rental cars can be as small as a Renault Twingo/Fiat 500), so we'd be looking for one that fits with a belt or clips into the isofix points themselves.

I've read a lot online about the rear/forward-facing debate (and, frankly, got a bit scared - our in-laws back in Blighty have a Britax Evolve, which is forward-facing only, but he loved it last time we were home). I think I would like to get a rear-facing one, but am worried about compatibility and also comfort given the car situation. If he's going to scream and writhe the entirety of each and every journey (which is what he did last time) because he's cramped or because he doesn't travel in cars enough to get used to it (we will be driving more but nothing approaching regularly), that's going to make the journey more dangerous because I'll be distracted and stressed.

In an ideal world, I'd like to find a rear-facing seat that will go both ways if it turns out rear-facing proves impossible, as well as being lightweight/compact and simple to install and plonk him in it in different cars.

Does such a Goldilocks seat exist?! I like the look of the Axkid seats (although very pricey!!). I've also heard good things about the Britax Evolvafix, which seems to be the new version of the Evolve, but like its predecessor it's forward-facing only.

My biggest problem is that I have pretty much no choice but to buy "blind", and it's a lot of money to spend on something that he might just not take to, so any advice would be really welcome.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Can you get Joie seats in France? The Joie stages for example can rear face to 18kg (or FF from 13kg) and is belt fitted.

Ah yes I think so. I'll take a look, thanks!

I live in Germany

Joie Stages isn't available in France because it's R44 and only R129 seats are allowed to be sold now. The Joie belt fitted seats are less easily found on the continent, although their Graco seats which are basically the same often are.

You can get Joie Steadi/Graco Extend LX for example, which is fairly similar, and would be a good choice IMO although it costs about €150, which I think is a lot for this type of seat. That is used rear facing or forward facing, belt fitted, the RF/FF limits are the same (105cm/18kg) although some users on this forum reported that it's outgrown a little sooner than 105cm by height, which could be a problem if he's too big for the Aton 5 at 80/85cm. However that could be a "cross that bridge when you come to it" problem.

Graco Turn2Me is basically a clone of Joie 360 Spin, and is excellent - RF/FF, isofix in one piece, inexpensive, fits in every car I've had it in (we had a 5 door Suzuki Swift and I've had it in a Hyundai i10 as well) comfortable and roomy but it is heavy - it will work OK if you can drive the car share car to your house and install the seat, but I would not want to be carrying this around on public transport, and it would be impossible with a toddler at the same time.

Bébéconfort is worth a look as a brand - they are the cheaper arm of Maxi Cosi, and because they are made in France, they genuinely are cheap. Their seats are solid and well made but basic. The Évolutif/Apollo/Everfix, which is about €100, is similar to Britax Evolvafix (including being forward facing only). Ideally I would not recommend a forward facing seat at 18 months, but on the other hand, if you don't use cars very often then it might be better to get the best forward facing seat you can which will do the best job rather than a RF/FF combo which you'll only use rear facing for a short time and perhaps does a less good job of FF. Have a think about it.

Britax Evolvafix/Advansafix are indeed available. These are quite wide in the hip area and for a baby of 18 months, if they must be forward facing, personally I'd be happier with a dedicated 5-point-harness seat without high back booster mode, like Britax Trifix 2 or Britax King Pro, or possibly a variant on Maxi Cosi Titan, which does have the HBB mode but is just sized more nicely for a younger baby.

One thing to be aware of is that most FF-only isofix seats use top tether now, and this MUST be used during the 5 point harness stage - while that shouldn't be a problem because in France all cars have had top tether since 2013, IME, when top tether hooks are only rarely used you can find they get rusted and jammed and can be difficult to access. This happened in my sister's car and we had to lever the hook up with a knife to get it to attach, and thinking about this in hindsight, using a rusty hook to attach it might not have been the most secure thing! But all the cars you use should have this at least.

Speaking of Maxi Cosi - you could look at Maxi Cosi Nomad - this is a seat designed specifically for your kind of situation, it folds, and it's not too expensive, and belt fitted. The downside is that it's only forward facing, and some reviews suggested it can be tricky to get a secure fit in some cars.

It may be possible for you to go into a baby goods store and look at the seats and try your son in them - most baby type stores have a little set up with a pretend car seat with a seatbelt and isofix hooks so you can see how the seats fit. Morally, I don't think this is a problem to do this and then order for delivery online, if you buy from the same company. Some shops will allow you to do this in store even. It's a bit more morally dubious to go in person and try things out and then buy from somewhere cheaper like amazon, but do what you have to do

Side note BTW; you might want to check the age of your in-laws' seat if you can do so without offending them, perhaps by wondering which grandchild it was originally bought for and then working back. The Evolva has been in use for a very very long time and although it was still sold until quite recently, it's possible that seat is a much older version. Since it's Britax, I wouldn't be hugely worried about using it even if it is on the older side, but if it's over 10 years, or showing any signs of wear and tear, it might be worth replacing it. And if it's had the straps taken in/out multiple times for different grandchildren, it might be worth double checking that everything is OK there and nothing is twisted or routed incorrectly.

Wow, thanks a lot for such a detailed reply! I think I should double check that his fit in the Atom before going ahead with a new purchase, but even if he's still got a few months left in the Atom, it's worth knowing which one(s) to go for ahead of time!

Lots of really useful info about the FF seats. I think that, given our situation, it seems like we'd be better off with a seat that goes up to c. 4 years RF/FF and then moving on to a good FF/booster, rather than going for the latter right now. Perhaps I'm being paranoid about him rejecting RF, but the idea of having to buy another seat or giving up driving because he hates it does stress me out some!

I had noticed the Joie Steadi after the first person replied; the Graco Extend looks near identical and currently only €109 on their site. Both look simple enough to install with a belt. The Turn2Me also looks very good, though as you say it looks cumbersome; because we live on a pedestrianised street, I won't always be able to bring the hire car to the front door.

Regarding top tether, none of the cars offered in the share scheme are particularly old, so I would expect them all to have a functioning top tether in one seat at the very least (they also have Suzuki Swifts 😀).

Incidentally, assuming the seat is correctly installed, does a belted seat actually offer any less protection than isofix? I understand that isofix is in theory harder to get wrong...

The in-laws got the Britax seat for free from a trustworthy source (i.e. definitely no crashes), but I don't think they know how many kids have used it and for how long, so I think we probably should think about replacing it - probably with something like the Steadi or Extend. We won't be going back until summer so plenty of time there.

Thanks again!

He probably won't fit in the Aton any more - I had the same seat, and DS2 outgrew it at about 10 months (he was very long!) whereas DS3 was OK in it until about 13 months but neither of them would have fit by 18 months. There are other Cybex infant carrier seats which are bigger, but they won't buy you much time so it makes more sense to change to a <105cm seat now.

Here I have two photos to compare DS3 in the Aton 5 (red seat) - too big for it here, I took it to show the limits of that seat, and then him in a black seat which is similar in design to the Joie Steadi/Graco Extend, you can see he has much more room and was comfy enough to fall asleep even though we were doing quite a long drive. The photos were taken about 2 weeks apart and he was 14 months old and wearing size 86 clothing.

I would definitely recommend the Joie Steadi/Graco Extend, it's a shame it's not as light as the older types, but it's still a good seat and €109 is a really good price. There is a slightly bigger model as well called Joie Every Stage/Joie Verso/Graco Slimfit - but the problem with this is that the forward facing mode in it is just a high back booster, for older children using the adult seatbelt.

With a pedestrianised street, you'll curse the Turn2Me - it is so heavy and the leg doesn't lock so it constantly opens itself and smacks you in the shins. But it would be a good option for your in laws if you're nervous about the Evolva and wanted to change it. To carry the Graco/Joie seat - fasten the straps and use these as a handle, rest it in the seat of a buggy, or look into a car seat backpack (some also have wheels) designed for airport use.

The question about isofix vs seatbelt - it's tricky.

The primary benefit of isofix, as you say, is avoiding fitment errors. Errors with belt fitted seats can be common (something like 60-70%) and you wouldn't necessarily know; isofix has a built-in feedback system (indicators which flick from red to green to show correct installation). But it does also have another benefit which is that all isofix seats have what's called a third anchor - this is the support leg or top tether. In a crash, a car seat is (hopefully!) securely attached to the car by two solid points at the bottom of the seat - either the two isofix arms, or the attached end and buckle end of the lap belt. So the crash forces cause the seat to rotate forwards and down sort of "around" these two points. With an isofix seat, the leg braces it against the floor so it can't rotate down, or the top tether holds it back so it can't rotate forwards. Some belt fitted seats use some kind of lock or clip on the diagonal belt to help reduce forward rotation, or the belt routing is further up the seat to help with this (like the Evolva), but I think (I am not 100% sure) that a support leg/top tether does do this a bit more effectively - this is an extrapolation from ADAC test results.

The belt wrapping around the back of an infant seat or larger rear facing seat also performs this job. And while you get a slight benefit in RF with support leg compared to RF using this seatbelt method, any kind of rear facing is still safer than FF.

The two most common problems with belt installation are not pulling the belt tight enough, and routing it incorrectly. So I would recommend looking at the instruction manual but also watching videos online about how to install the seat so you have seen it all from multiple angles and are confident about the right routing. It is pretty intuitive with this seat, but it doesn't hurt to be more confident

Then secondly don't be shy about pulling the lap belt tight after you've routed and buckled it. You can press your own weight down into the seat as you tighten. For forward facing, kneeling into the seat works. For rear facing you can press down on the seat or push it into the backrest of the vehicle seat with your knee. A very tight pulled seatbelt can actually give you an install which seems to move less than an isofix one, which is always reassuring. If you're testing the fit in rear facing, it will move a lot if you try to wiggle the seat at the top - don't do this as it also risks damaging the headrest. Instead try to sort of "flick" the lap belt from the door side, like a guitar string, it should stay taut and not release any slack.

You can remove the car headrest to give LO a better view. In the Suzuki Swift you have to release the back seat as though folding it flat to let the headrest come fully out.

Thanks for the belting tips! I plonked him in the Aton yesterday after making sure there was no more wiggle room and took a photo. He looks quite similar to your LO; though he might have a little more room around the legs to bring his head down a bit, that's not going to make him any more comfortable.

I think I'm going to go with the Graco Extend for us and look into the Turn2Me/360 spin for the in-laws as there won't be any issues with parking outside the house.

I think you can bring the headrest up one more click on the Aton but yes, it looks as though he's definitely outgrown it even if you did manage to move it up. Once their head is poking out the top, that is when an infant car seat is outgrown.