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55cm gap for forward facing harnessed seats?

3 replies

horchatatresleches · 02/02/2025 09:18

I often see on car seat Facebook groups that a forward-facing seat should have a 55cm "survival gap" between the child’s face and the seat in front but I'm not sure where this information comes from. I have the BeSafe Beyond 360 and just checked the manual, but it doesn't mention anything about the positioning of the front seat when the car seat is in forward-facing mode. I drive a Mini, which is listed as an approved car for this seat, and although I’m not using the Beyond 360 seat yet since my child is too young, I can't imagine there will be 55cm of space if we do need to face DC forward in the future if the front passenger wants any legroom. If this gap were so critical, wouldn’t it be mentioned in the manual, especially since BeSafe is known for their focus on safety and they’ve said the seat is fine to use in a small car with no qualifications? It seems strange that this information is only found in Facebook comments without any sources quoted.

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olderthanyouthink · 02/02/2025 09:24

I had a Google

"European forward facing car seats aren’t tested with less than a 50 or 55 cm gap (depending on which standard is being used for testing), so we don’t know how a seat will perform with a smaller gap."

Read more here
csftl.org/car-seat-myths-survival-gap/

So I guess you'd be using the seat in an untested way with a smaller gap, I don't know why the manufacturers don't give more guidance here though

BertieBotts · 02/02/2025 13:13

It's a bit overstated on FB groups. And also they are measuring it wrong.

It's basically part of the legal testing that car seats have to go through to be allowed to be sold - this is the diagram which I've taken from the ECE R129 documentation. The crash rig has to be set up this way. The child's face is completely irrelevant because this will vary depending on how bulky the seat is and the angle of the vehicle seat, the important point is part C on the diagram (ie, where the isofix points are or would be in a non-isofix seat) and then the back of the front seat, if you drew an invisible line vertically from both points and then measured this distance. In the crash test, cameras record the forward excursion of the crash test dummy's head and if it goes past this line, the seat fails the test.

It's worth noting in cheaper and more basic seats because those seats tend to just scrape under the excursion amount required. With brands that put more research and development into the mechanics of their seats (e.g. Britax, Cybex, Maxi-Cosi) you typically see much lower head excursion distances anyway.

Head excursion is considered important because in a crash the injuries are caused by what they call the "third collision" - the first collision is between the car and another object (another vehicle, a wall etc), the second collision is what physically stops the person's body from moving (seatbelt, airbag, car seat straps) but the third collision is the passenger's internal organs against the front of their skull, rib cage etc.

In order to reduce injury, you want to slow down and minimise the amount of movement for that third collision. And the way that child restraints try to do this is to slow down and minimise movement for the second collision. One of the ways to measure how well they do this is to measure head excursion.

Then there is also the other risk which the above link talks about which is potential impact on the front seat, dashboard or airbag, which is also a serious risk to car passengers in accidents, especially in the rear seats.

Under R44 the distance was 550mm (55cm) and under R129 the distance is now 500mm (50cm).

If you measure this in your own car, you will often find the seat itself is about 53cm deep. I've measured a few cars. So unless you have an absolutely teeny sports car where the front seats overhang the back seats, you're probably already achieving the gap without actually trying.

Also, it's arguably not a minimum distance to use the seat. Unless the car seat manual states a minimum distance, and some do say they prefer the front seat to be pushed as far forward as possible, it's a performance metric for use in crash test scenarios, not an operating instruction. You do of course need to install the seat to the instructions given in the user manual, but you don't have to conform to all of the exact metrics of the regulatory crash test - unless you drive at under 30mph all the time, you're not doing this anyway. It doesn't make sense.

It just seems to be an argument against forward facing. And while I agree that rear facing is safer than forward facing, this particular argument winds me up because I have never come across a rear facing seat which fits in a 55cm gap either. The most compact ones seem to take up about 70cm. And while this is also measured from a different point (closer to E on that diagram) I don't think that this constitutes 15cm of extra space. So to be perfectly honest I think this is just fearmongering.

If you have a small gap between front and back seats and you are using a forward facing seat, it's beneficial to have an R129 certified one and it's always important to follow the instructions for installation, get as tight and solid an install as you can and make sure the straps are positioned properly and tight enough. But it's not accurate to call it a "survival gap".

55cm gap for forward facing harnessed seats?
horchatatresleches · 02/02/2025 14:17

Thanks both of you 😊 It didn't sound right to me, but starting an argument in a car seat Facebook group isn't my idea of a relaxing Sunday! 50cm (because it's an R129 seat) from the isofix points to the passenger seat is definitely achievable and more consistently measurable than the tip of the child's nose which is what I keep reading. I know the seat fits rear facing without needing the front seat all the way forward from when we tested out after we bought it, and according to this video the seat itself is about 60cm (not measured from the isofix points but useful as a rough guide) so I imagine it would be compliant forward facing. That's still a few years off though (and hopefully my child doesn't get travel sick facing backwards like I do and can stay rear facing in the seat anyway!)

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