Houdini 2.5 year old escaping arms from car seat

[pleasemumcanihave]

My 2.5 year old keeps managing to get his arms out of his car seat (joie stages). I suspect he’s double jointed/hypermobile in his elbows like his dad and he always manages to slip his arms out underneath. The straps are super tight and readjusted every journey. It’s impossible to get the straps tighter. I’ve tried an add-on clip in desperation but he can unclip it! I reluctantly tried front facing to see if that would distract him but no luck. I’ve tried pulling over every time he gets his arms free but there’s not always anywhere safe to stop and it turns into a battle of wills and it’s really getting me down. We’re overseas so restricted in car seat choice and finances are a bit tricky at the moment but this just feels so unsafe. He’s 17kg and 97cm. Do I forward face and use the seat belt? Given he’s not sufficiently restrained with the harness? Are there any other gadgets I can try? I just want him to be safe and secure - he’s not right now and I don’t know what to do for the best. Thanks to anyone with any suggestions!

[FamilyAreEverything]

That sounds really tough. There could be a few things going on here. Firstly I’d look to get a fit check as I've heard that a lot of the time that this can help, especially if the headrest is too low. Secondly, you need to check whether you have the inserts in correctly, especially if rear facing. You say that you pull the straps really tight, but that can make them want to struggle more. Can you turn the airbag off in the front and have him rear facing in the passenger seat?
He’s certainly too young to consider using seat belt, even though he is 17kg. At that weight he’s also at the upper end of the weight limit for rear facing in the seat you have. At 2.5, he’s much safer rear facing for at least another 1.5 - 2 years, but he’s also currently travelling unrestrained at times now which also isn’t safe. I know you said that finances are tricky, but could you look into a ERF seat with a higher weight limit, such as an Axkid Move? These seats have much less bulky inserts and often get a much better fit.
Good luck in your search. I can’t imagine the stress of travelling with a determined toddler.

[heatherwithapee]

Can you get seats with an impact cushion rather than a harness where you are? This was the solution for us.

[Tatonka]

I'd google this specifically for products that stop escaping or contact the manufacturer

[SnowsFalling]

It won't help if his mobility is the cause, but double check the height of the shoulder straps.
My kids used to be able to escape when they had grown and the shoulder straps were too low.

[Weallnamechangesometimes]

Besafe belt collector. No clip to undo.

[BertieBotts]

Whereabouts are you - somewhere in Europe or elsewhere? It's difficult to recommend seats without knowing what safety regulation is applicable where you are and whether you are somewhere with less car seat awareness/availability in general.

Given his weight and height you are likely to need a longer lasting option. If you have Joie Stages, I would guess you can get European regulation seats, so I'd see if you can get hold of Cybex Anoris T - this is unfortunately pricey, but it is probably worth paying out for as it's much less escapable, might feel less restrictive to him, and it's a good seat with a good safety rating plus the limits are a bit higher. It goes up to 115cm and 21kg, rather than the more usual 105cm/18kg. There is also Cybex Pallas G which has 105cm/21cm limit on the impact shield. An 18kg limit is likely to be outgrown too quickly for you.

If that is not possible then you could look at something like Britax Evolvafix/Versafix/Advansafix Pro. It has a higher weight limit of 21kg, and the harness is much less thickly padded than the Joie Stages which I think makes it a bit less easy to escape, though not impossible. Or rear facing Axkid seats have a closer fitting harness than Joie.

Do you have isofix and top tethers in your car?

Don't make the straps TOO tight as this could be uncomfortable for him making him want to escape. It's OK to be able to slip one finger under them as long as they aren't totally loose.

[Chanel05]

@SnowsFalling

It won't help if his mobility is the cause, but double check the height of the shoulder straps.
My kids used to be able to escape when they had grown and the shoulder straps were too low.

Same. Check this first.

[pleasemumcanihave]

Thanks all. Such wonderful advice already. We’re in the gulf where the only requirement for children is that they are “appropriately restrained” which means the basic seatbelt. In reality, most locals don’t even use seatbelts (themselves or their kids) and I rarely see car seats beyond infant carriers. It’s a kids on laps in the car culture. It’s quite disturbing given the frequency and severity of accidents, there just isn’t the same awareness as the UK. Yet.

There’s no such thing as a fit check here unfortunately so I’ve been going by YouTube videos.

I’ll re-check the height of the shoulder straps and see if that makes a difference.

I’ve definitely been pulling the straps too tight in desperation so I’ll stop doing that.

Availability is pretty limited in terms of brands and we would need something that meets UK requirements anyway as we tend to travel back for the summer. Main international brand here is joie, although i’ve seen graco too. No britax or cybex, at least, not in stock. Ive never heard of an impact cushion so I can’t imagine it’s available here. I don’t have isofix or top tethers in my car so that restricts options too. We could buy something more suitable in the summer and try the besafe belt connector or similar until then. That would be better than the current situation. We have visitors coming soon that can bring that from Amazon UK. Or any other add on suggestions?

Can the joie stages harness undo to fit a clip to feed the strap through? I’d worry he’d undo that besafe belt connector in 5 seconds but willing to try!

[pleasemumcanihave]

Is the "5 point plus anti escape system" as good as it looks to solve this problem?

[BertieBotts]

Hmm that's tricky. Graco is mostly Joie, unless you have access to American Graco seats? American spec seats might actually be a good option for you as the harnesses are slightly different plus they tend to have much higher weight limits.

The Besafe clip slides onto the straps, you don't need to unhook them.

5 point plus is worth a try, especially in conjunction with the belt collector maybe, but be warned that it's not totally inescapable - some children just push it down to make the space anyway or they undo the velcro. You might buy yourself a few weeks/months if you never show him that the velcro exists, you can leave it attached to the straps, but he might work it out anyway if he's determined enough.

You can get the impact shield seats in the UK but unfortunately the ones with weight limit over 18kg need the isofix.

In fact, your only EU spec seat with higher harness limit with no isofix requirement is Joie Elevate R129 or Joie Every Stage R129 (Graco Slimfit R129 is the same seat). Joie Elevate is probably going to fit him for longer and is forward facing whereas the Every Stage/Slimfit are rear facing then convert to booster.

Oh, or Maxi Cosi Beryl - this is a decent one with 25kg harness limit and might be able to be brought from the UK but it is a HUGE heavy seat which is a pain.

Look into whether any of the seats on sale near you are US spec. Do your seatbelts lock for child seat install? If not, you'll want a locking clip too. Although these aren't strictly legal to use in the UK, nobody is checking if you are a visitor.

I'd be extremely reluctant to secure a child under 3 only with the seatbelt and particularly one who is so keen to escape! In the UK the seatbelt is actually recommended for age 4+ if possible. If we are talking least-worst scenario, properly secured with booster-adjusted seatbelt is likely better than arms out with harness, but I still don't like it. I don't know where arms-out rear facing sits in this scenario. I know it's less of an issue to be improperly secured rear facing, but of course it's not completely benign either. Carseat.se might have some useful feedback WRT whether arms-out RF is better or worse than such a young child in a seatbelt FF or some useful solutions. I believe they ship worldwide too so try messaging them. They are quite good at the situations where a perfect solution doesn't exist, IME.

[BertieBotts]

Another good resource is the FB group Car Seats For The Littles UK/EU.

For whatever reason it seems to be the best car seat resource for places like UAE where the car seat laws are lax and the brands are less available. I think because it's run by CPSTs which is an American qualification, but they all live in places that accept the EU standard.

The normal UK based groups will be less help as they tend to fixate on the best possible solutions within the UK which might not be available to you.

[InTheRainOnATrain]

Can you get hold of American seats easily where you are? They usually have higher limits for harness use and most importantly chest clips that are really tricky to undo. My just turned 3YO is a houdini, even the Advansafix recommended by Bertie won’t contain him so we’ve reluctantly got his sister’s old seat from when we lived in the states out of the loft (we keep it for travel as it’s FAA approved) and he cannot do the chest clip so it’s solved the problem.

[BertieBotts]

Ah, in fact, Maxi Cosi Beryl might be no use as it isn't in stock anywhere in the UK and EU will have likely cleared all their stock too because it's R44, which is no longer legal to sell in the EU.

This site has Cybex Anoris, but I have no reference for whether the price is insane, and it also has to be fitted with isofix. So no use unless you can change the car. https://mamasandpapas.ae/travel-car-seats/

I wonder if there is a local online English speakers' group and you could ask if anyone has an American spec seat they are no longer using. Or have a look on local selling sites for Maxi Cosi Beryl or Diono Radian 5 (which used to be a fairly popular travel seat, because it's flight approved and can be fitted with seatbelt). Second hand is not ideal, of course, but might be one way to get hold of seats from other expat families which aren't sold locally.

[HipHop63]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Harness-Threading-Required-Prevent-Children/dp/B076PCXGNK?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

providing that isn't the one he can already undo.

[pleasemumcanihave]

Thanks all - lots of great ideas and avenues for further investigation! Really appreciate it, and special thanks to Bertie for such detailed responses.

Yes hiphop - that's the one he's managed to escape from already unfortunately.

[HipHop63]

@pleasemumcanihave

Thanks all - lots of great ideas and avenues for further investigation! Really appreciate it, and special thanks to Bertie for such detailed responses.

Yes hiphop - that's the one he's managed to escape from already unfortunately.

Oh no! Straight jacket ? 😂

[willsandnoodle]

I second the besafe seatbelt collector.

I'm at this stage with my 2 year old also. I'm using the clip. It doesn't undo, rather it hooks on either side of the car seat bag.

It's been tested and is safe. Works for us. Before hand I was having to stop every 5 minutes of so to re strap him in. Even had dc in the front at one point. I have an axkid minikid car seat, so my child is a Houdini too.