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Car seat with seatbelt installation for travel for a 3.5 year old

15 replies

escocesita · 22/11/2023 15:14

Hi all,

I’m traveling next week to Central America with my son who is 3.5 (95cm, 16kg) and I’m looking for a car seat for use in taxis and transfers. I don’t drive so we’ve never owned one and I’m feeling really overwhelmed.

If I got it right, he still needs to be in a Group 1 seat. I’m not too worried about him growing out of it quickly as he has a little brother who can use it.

Ideally we would like to spend 200-300 euro and it needs to be seatbelt installation. Light would be great, but I’m willing to compromise. I’m based in Germany, so not all UK models available here.

So far I found:

  • Joie Fortifi, 150 euro, 8 kg (I couldn’t find any safety tests).
  • Römer King Pro, 250 Euro, 10kg (installation looks super easy which is great for taxis)
  • Maxi Cosi Nomad (so light but I fear it is not safer than the Urban Kanga that we used in the past and no longer feel comfortable with).

If anyone could offer advice on these models or has any to suggest that I may have missed, I would be very grateful.

OP posts:
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escocesita · 22/11/2023 15:48

Thank you! From what I understood though, he’s too small for a Group 2 seat. It’s a pity because they look more compact.

OP posts:
Caspianberg · 22/11/2023 15:55

I don’t think so. It’s mainly on the weight isn’t it? And at 16kg he’s over the min 15kg weight.

I have 3.5 year old, he’s still harnessed and rear facing at home, but I would happily put him one above now for travel I think ( but he’s only 14kg and 98cm so not quite weight wise). But we will need one in 6 months and will get.

If your travelling in Central America where cars often don’t have isofix or top tethers then choice is limited anyway for this age group

Caspianberg · 22/11/2023 15:55

The recaro gets good reviews I think and is new for 2023

BananaPalm · 22/11/2023 15:58

We've got Maxi cosi Beryl but it's quite heavy. Although it's one of the few that can still be attached with a seatbelt (or isofix).

One question though: wouldn't it be easier to buy a car seat when you arrive? Which country are you travelling to? Good car seat will be important as driving culture there can be a bit sketchy...

escocesita · 22/11/2023 16:09

Thanks both! I thought he had to be minimum 100cm, rather 105cm for the next stage up otherwise I like the look of the Chicco one.

We’re going to Mexico but multiple stops and sometimes only a short time in each place. Plus we need to get from the airport to the city before we could buy one. Not totally sure what the selection would be like either as they don’t really seem to be a thing in Mexico. (Seatbelts are also sometimes not a thing 🫣)

The driving is indeed creative which is why we decided by to use the Urban Kanga any more!

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 22/11/2023 21:49

I wouldn't put him in a high backed booster if you have the option of a harnessed seat. If you absolutely have to, then Chicco Fold and Go is the best travel option, but a 16kg 3 year old is not well protected in any high backed booster. Doubly so if the seatbelt is dubious or only a lap belt. Also he is technically not tall enough for it - he should be 100cm. A very high quality harnessed seat will likely offer better protection, even if the seatbelt is not ideal. Rear facing would be excellent, but I think you'll struggle to fit most rear facing seats so that might be a no go especially as he'll be quite tall and heavy in the shell.

It's worth familiarising yourself with how American seatbelts lock for child seat installation. This is not something that you should do if the seatbelt inertia lock (locks when you yank it) is working properly, because European car seats are designed to work with European style seatbelts that don't have this locking mode, but in the case that the only seatbelts that you have access to are dodgy, it might be something to bear in mind.

Out of what you've suggested, I'd go for Romer King - this is a good, well rated seat with a belt tensioner and Britax-Romer build in a decent amount of "failsafe" into their seats which is a decent thing to have if you're unsure about availability of seatbelts etc.

I don't like Joie Fortifi, this is very similar to the Joie Every Stage, which did poorly forward facing, and I would avoid 123 type seats if possible, stick with something with a solid one-piece shell. Maxi Cosi Nomad is not that dissimilar from Urban Kanga. It probably has better side impact protection. Did you find that you were able to fit the Urban Kanga securely in most vehicles? It always looks to me like it would get forward anchorage (where the belt is taut sort of in front of the seat, so the seat is effectively loose behind the taut belt. This is wrong, as the belt should be "anchoring" the seat by pulling it back). Maxi Cosi has the same problem because the back of the seat is very thin.

One problem you'll struggle with in Germany is that since September of this year, R44 regulation seats are only allowed to be sold as far as existing stock lasts. All new stock needs to be R129, so you'll find dwindling stock of a lot of these products. There are very few R129 belt fitted, forward facing seats on the market thus far.

So, normal, R44 Group 1 seats with decent(ish) safety rating up to €300 which are still sold (that I can find for sale - I'm also in Germany 🙂🥨)

Maxi Cosi Axiss - 9kg, good safety rating, the shoulder belt routing is pretty crucial.
Maxi Cosi Priori - the previous model had lap belt approval. This one officially doesn't. Very lightweight. Used to be the go to model for non drivers. A bit basic/outdated.
Maxi Cosi Tobi - one of the best rated seatbelt fit seats. However again the shoulder belt routing is crucial.
Maxi Cosi Beryl - Great because of the long harness use. But it's a bit of a beast at 14.9kg. It does come apart into seat and base (which can be belt fitted).
Britax-Romer Duo Plus - this would be a great option because it has both seatbelt and isofix/top tether fitting, either can be used. Gets a good safety rating in both settings (better with isofix). It's heavier than the King. You can use isofix fittings in LATCH anchors. Official fitting does not allow use of tether with seatbelt, but worth noting that several US seats fit this way, if you are ever in a non ideal fitting situation, it is worth knowing.
Britax Romer Eclipse - very lightweight, has lap belt approval, has plane approval. AutoMotorSport were quite critical of its performance in the lap belt test back in about 2013.
Britax-Romer King II - one of the best rated seatbelt fit seats.
Recaro Tian - 8.4kg - it's a 123 seat but probably the best safety rating of all of these/most modern one. It has isofix, but you only use it in the booster mode. Harness mode is belt fitted.
Besafe izi Comfort X3 - this is a beast weight wise again but they are good seats, great safety for forward facing. Might be impractical.

You can get Joie Stages/Tilt/Steadi R129 or Graco Extend / Extend R129 (all for basically extortionate prices) - these are all fairly lightweight and the R129 ones have the extra testing of R129, plus might be more easily found. They all have the option to rear face up to 18kg, which might be worth looking at, but the forward facing modes on these are pretty basic, similar to the Britax Eclipse/Maxi Cosi Priori.

Also Joie Every Stage R129 / Graco Slimfit R129 is an option for rear facing up to 22kg/105cm. Also has forward facing mode but only without harness (high backed booster) so could be a bit risky for shorter seatbelts.

In general, the brands I'd trust for forward facing in Germany are Maxi Cosi, Britax-Romer, Besafe (HTS), and Recaro. If you can go and scour any local shops including supermarkets, for any old stock that isn't listed online. Ask at your nearest Zwergperten or Kindersitzprofis, BabyOne, BabyWalz. They might even have some retired rental seats that you could offer to replace with an R129 model. It's worth an ask.

If you are comfortable with buying second hand, Diono Radian 5 used to be suggested a lot for travel because it folds and it's flight approved. But it's tricky to use with very complicated instructions so if you do buy it second hand, be sure to get all the parts and the instruction book.

There are some impact shield seats and Germans are very keen on the safety credentials of these but I'm not sure I'd go for one in this situation, as they are meant to perform worse in rollovers and offset crashes. However, they are very easy to fit quickly in pretty much any sort of car, and the Kiddy ones have lap belt approval. (I know that Joie and Cybex don't - Recaro IS might). At 95cm tall, this might be worth considering. Kiddy Phoenixfix seems to still be sold.

Bit of a wildcard suggestion - but Nachfolger Hy5 World?? This is a self-inflatable seat, rear facing, belt routing shouldn't be a problem. Zwergperten stock them in store (or they used to). It is about €400 though so it is over your budget but the practicality might sway that. It can also be used on a plane.

Another wildcard suggestion would be to see if you can import a Ride Safer Travel Vest from America - though in all honesty, I am really not sure if I would trust it. There are some positive stories on their website from people who have been in accidents, so maybe just one to research.

Definitely take something with you rather than buying out there - the car seat selection in Central America is not good at all. And according to a friend who travelled there, don't leave it visible in the car - it is apparently taken as a sign that you're "rich" and there might be things worth stealing in the car.

BertieBotts · 22/11/2023 21:54

Erm sorry that was really long - I will summarise -

The King is the best of the three you say.

I wouldn't use a HBB seat if safety is your concern.

Maxi Cosi Priori / Romer Eclipse / Joie or Graco anything are lightweight.

Britax (Romer) Duo Plus or King are the best for safety and dodgy seatbelt compatability. If you'll defo have three point belts, Maxi Cosi Axiss and Maxi Cosi Tobi are also worth a look.

Look at Nachfolger Hy5 World.

escocesita · 23/11/2023 08:53

Oh wow! So first of all, thank you so much @BertieBotts

We fly on Wednesday and I feel really under pressure to choose a safe car seat for my son. I feel extremely guilty about having put him in the Urban Kanga last time. I’m anxious about the driving and availability of seatbelts so all in all my stress levels are high. Your overview and explanations have had a very calming effect! And how lucky that you are also in Germany!!

So last night before reading your post we thought we would go for the Joie Steadi. Lots of family members have it and it is light. Having read your post, I think I’m back with the King. Particularly the solid shell sells it to me as the quality of seatbelts is a bit of an unknown though we will organize transfers where possible and we wait for a taxi or Uber with working seatbelt.

About the US seatbelts, do you mean that they are not supposed to lock when you yank them? We have come across that in Mexico before and I just thought they were broken. But you mean they may be US seatbelts and we could learn how to work with that?

I love the idea of the Eclipse that goes on the plane! We are however a bit up against it time wise and I think we need something that is on Amazon or that my husband can collect from BabyOne/Walz.

I just sent the list to my husband and he’s going to check availability and what we could get fast enough.

In terms of protection for checking it in, is my best beta padded car seat bag and hope for the best? Last time the Kanga went as hand luggage.

Many thanks and I will report back!

OP posts:
Caspianberg · 23/11/2023 10:32

We have traveled with joie tilt until now. We just bought a car seat bag from Amazon. It’s really handy tbh. It gets checked in with suitcases (it’s way to big for hand luggage anyway), and as the bag is big we use space middle space of car seat For bulky items like nappies, blankets, or other bulky but light items
(shoved loads of second hand duplo in a few years ago in canvas bag when we flew back from uk - we are also abroad)

escocesita · 23/11/2023 11:37

Great! Good tip with packing it out with extra nappies and things! Feel a bit nervous about it getting damaged but I will try and accept we can only do so much. Hopefully will be fine!

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 23/11/2023 20:04

If you get a seat which has a possible lap belt path (even if it has no official lap belt approval) you could actually take it onto the plane itself and put it on the plane seat for your son. Most airlines don't require the specific air approval as long as it meets EU regulations for use in a car. This is a bit iffy in terms of whether they will actually allow it, so you might prefer to just pack it well and put it in the hold instead.

I believe (not 100% sure) that cars on the road in Mexico are from a mix of places, but there will be a lot of US-originated vehicles simply because of the land border so it's easiest to import them from there. However of course they are often older models.

The seatbelt should still lock in response to sudden movement. This is called ELR. (Emergency Locking Response). But most US cars newer than 1996 (?) will also have what's known as "child restraint mode" or ALR, which is where you can switch the belt into a mode where once you've pulled it out to a certain length, it's then on a ratchet wheel so it can ONLY get tighter, not looser. This is how all US car seats work, but European ones don't.

In an ideal situation you'd want to use the ELR mode to secure the car seat as it's a European seat and it's designed to be used with a seatbelt which locks in response to sudden movement, not one which is locked all the time. But if for whatever reason you need to know about it, that's what ALR is and what it's for.

The Steadi is a good seat but I would mainly recommend it for rear facing. If you are likely to forward face then a seat designed primarily for forward facing is probably better, the trade off will be the weight.

If you end up going for something like the Steadi which doesn't have a belt tensioner, kneel into the seat as you're tightening the seatbelt as it helps get it really really tight. With the Romer King you can just pull it hand tight because when you close the seat to finish fitting it, it will tighten it that bit more for you.

Bournetilly · 23/11/2023 20:09

Id recommend the joie tilt its very easy to install. We used it as a spare when travelling with family.

escocesita · 28/11/2023 19:43

Just an update that we bought the Römer King. It is not light, but the installation is so easy that we thought it was worth it for getting in and out of taxis. It’s all picked up and ready to fly tomorrow 😀

A big thanks to @BertieBotts!

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 28/11/2023 20:31

Woohoo! Good luck on your trip and have a great time.

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