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New born reclining seat with travel system

23 replies

CarSeatCofusion · 17/10/2023 09:11

Hi, pregnant with 2nd child (after large gap) and I've been looking at cat seats and travel systems. I don't want to spend a fortune, so have been looking at the Ickle Bubba (awful name) Stomp and similar ones which look like they fit the bill (up to £500 for everything). However, we will be doing a fair bit of travelling in the first few months, so I'd like a car seat that reclines as much as possible. I know there are a few - but my question is can anyone recommend one that works with a travel system, that isn't mega bucks? Car seat needs to recline but not the carrycot style one as this will take up too much space (have 1 X tween and a dog in car too). I don't mind spending a lot on the cat seat, but I then don't want to spend a fortune of the travel system too - so are any recliners compatible with a good value travel system? I'm feeling quite confused/overwhelmed as everything has changed so much since I had my son! Thanks in advance

OP posts:
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CarSeatCofusion · 17/10/2023 09:22

Just to add, I meant lie flat car seat rather than reclining.

OP posts:
OnAir · 17/10/2023 09:30

Mamas and papas have their own pushchair with the cybex cloud T car seat with all the extras that come with a travel system for about £900 so not cheap in my eyes but probably the best price I've found so far.

OnAir · 17/10/2023 09:33

We bought the car seat separately cloud T and bought the joie versatrax on its own and basically built our own system most of the car seats that came as a bundle weren't suitable for our car or our needs.

Burpcloth · 17/10/2023 09:35

Hi OP. I bought the Joie I-level new around 2 years ago which worked with adaptors for a Bugaboo pram. I realise you're after compatibility with a more affordable pram, but the steps I took to check should apply with other brands:

  • see what adaptors icklebubba offer
  • go on Joie and look up the I-level manual pdf which should list pram comparability
  • if this doesn't list your particular pram model (it didn't mine - it was too new at the time) then contact Joie via their website - they get back really quickly.

Hope that helps! We got a great fit with the I-level, from 7lbs through to tall 15month old.

GodspeedJune · 17/10/2023 09:36

I looked into this and all the guidelines for taking baby out regularly still applied to the Cybex lie flat seats. No longer than half an hour in the seat as a newborn, and two hours as an older baby.

We went with the Avionaut pixel pro which has a unique design with inserts that keep baby’s back flat rather than slumped like you see in some car seat makes. It has been an excellent seat, I couldn’t recommend it enough. It’s also very light so easier to carry if you need to.

BertieBotts · 17/10/2023 09:53

If you really need the reclining feature on the car seat, you're leaving yourself a very low budget for the pushchair as these sets typically cost in the region of £400 just for the car seat and base.

There is no true lie flat car seat, except for the carrycot ones which take up more space as you already know. Everything else has an angle of approx 27 degrees, which is flatter than an average newborn car seat (between 30-45 degrees) but not considered safe eg for overnight sleep (which should be a max of 10 degrees incline). Which basically means that the standard 2 hour/ 30 mins in first 4 weeks time limit for car seats isn't negated by the lie flat because it's not truly flat. You can use your own judgement here because the standard time limits are based on car seats which are more steeply inclined, but there's no official negation of the guidance unless you use a car cot.

You might want to look at car seats which have a well positioned, supportive, good shape insert and use this to boost babies into a flatter position, rather than being swayed by the "lie flat" marketing. For example maxi Cosi tend to have these, so do avionaut (less well known brand but great seats), Britax too - though only the newer Britax seats are compatible with the universal pram adapters. Cybex can be good, I don't think they are quite as nice as the others at their lower end but they do last a long time, whereas maxi Cosi seats can be short lived with their 75cm limit. (Is your baby likely to be tall?)

If your car has sloping back seats then you might want to look at bases which recline. You could also save money by looking for reclining seats which can be seatbelt fitted so you don't need a base.

Would you look at a second hand buggy and new car seat? That could be an option to save money too. In terms of new, I personally think ickle bubba are overpriced for what they are, if you're in the market for a cheaper model and want all of those features, Joie, maxi Cosi and maybe some of the cheaper Cybex models all do cheap well, or you can go outside of the box and skip the parent facing requirement and look at something like a baby jogger city mini, or babyzen yo-yo, or even one of the very basic Joie/silver cross umbrella strollers that take a car seat and soft carrycot, or skip the carrycot and get a sling. Car seat on buggy for occasional use, sling for most of the time until baby is sitting well.

TheHellionKittyBaxter · 17/10/2023 10:00

Can I just say I don't need baby car seats anymore as my youngest is coming up to nine, but I always read these threads as I find @BertieBotts posts SO fascinating! I think I read that you worked with car seats for a while, but don't anymore? And yet you're still so knowledgeable and helpful! What an amazing person you are ❤️

olderthanyouthink · 17/10/2023 10:29

A cheaper way to get the avionaut pixel is the venicci ultralight, it's a pixel with different fabrics.

BertieBotts · 17/10/2023 11:04

Here's a list of reclining car seats on the market at the moment. Unless otherwise specified, these all fit into the standard "universal" or multi-brand car seat adapters (if they say it takes Maxi Cosi or Cybex, it's this kind.)

Joie i-Level Recline, Nuna Arra, Cybex Cloud Z2 Cybex Cloud T - each around £380-450 including base and need the base. (The Cybex seats can be installed without base, but not reclined without the base.)

Maxi Cosi Marble is on amazon for £280 with base included. It's quite an unwieldy seat and you can only use the recline feature up to 75cm, however can continue to use the car seat up to 85cm, which is quite handy!

Britax Baby-Safe 5Z2 is about £250 and can be installed in the car, when reclined, without the base if you can get a secure fit this way. (the base is £250 extra). Beware not to buy old stock of the 5Z1 as this was recalled. Looks like stock of 5Z2 is not quite available yet but should be soon.

Jané travel systems are a bit of a wildcard - these use a totally different design of car seat/carrycot hybrid which does do a proper lie flat recline, however you wouldn't be able to use this in the car. There are two options, the newer i-Matrix and the older Matrix Light 2. Matrix Light 2 can be belt fitted and has 2 fitting options - lie flat across the whole seat, or sat up like a normal car seat taking up only 1 seat space. i-Matrix doesn't have the lie flat option in the car at all and must be used with the base. But these are worth looking at because of how well the seats adapt. You can get travel systems including the older Matrix Light 2 for close-ish to your budget if you shop around. Jané unlike the other car seats I've mentioned don't do cross compatability so you have to use their car seats with their buggies only.

BertieBotts · 17/10/2023 11:05

TheHellionKittyBaxter · 17/10/2023 10:00

Can I just say I don't need baby car seats anymore as my youngest is coming up to nine, but I always read these threads as I find @BertieBotts posts SO fascinating! I think I read that you worked with car seats for a while, but don't anymore? And yet you're still so knowledgeable and helpful! What an amazing person you are ❤️

Ah thank you. I actually learned most of it before I started working with them but it did definitely help consolidate a lot of info to get more hands on with the various models/brands.

Honestly today I'm stuck at home with a poorly toddler and have time on my hands Grin

CarSeatCofusion · 17/10/2023 11:12

Thanks everyone, I will have a proper read through later. We are travelling to Europe when the baby will be circa 3 months old - hence the need for the 'lie flat'. I will read all the posts and maybe go and have a look at some seats if I can find local stockists. I would be open to a 2nd hand pram to keep costs down, I would rather do that and spend more on the seat.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 17/10/2023 14:36

Ah OK - so is the thinking that the car seat can be the pram for the holiday, to save carting a large carrycot around? In that case, you might be OK with something like the Cybex, because it does recline on the buggy, just not in the car without the base. Are you driving around Europe or flying? Going to visit family in one place or moving around?

Or a combo like Babyzen yoyo2 plus Maxi Cosi Pebble Pro might be good.

Or you could look at prams where they have a lie flat mode without the carrycot, like Cybex Balios S 2023?

Or have you seen the Doona? This could work well though I have seen people complain about the fit for a newborn. But for airport travel etc it's supposed to be second to none. Quite a niche choice and won't be right for everyone, but worth a look I'd say.

CarSeatCofusion · 17/10/2023 17:59

@BertieBotts , no I'd rather have a separate carry cot, we have a large car so carry cot will fit in boot. We won't be moving around much when we get to our destination, my biggest concern is the driving - I want the car seat to lie as flat as possible. We will have a long drive, then overnight ferry, then another long drive. Baby will be about 3 months. By the time we fly anywhere, baby will be too big for the carry cot but I would like a carry cot for walking the first few months and for the summer trip as we will be away for 6 weeks so I'd like him/her to be as comfortable as possible. Thanks for your help, I'll look at all your suggestions

OP posts:
LokiCokey · 18/10/2023 18:38

We had the Kiddy Evoluna I-size, it laid flat in the car or buggy. It went on our Uppababy vista with maxi-cosi adaptors. We were very happy with it as a seat.

BertieBotts · 18/10/2023 20:10

Ah OK, then the Doona, Jané seats and the Cybex ones won't work for you (unless you get the base for the Cybex).

The Kiddy seats were brilliant but are unfortunately no longer available to buy.

So you would be looking at Maxi Cosi Marble, Britax Babysafe 5Z2, Joie i-Level or Nuna Arra (or Cybex Cloud something with base) if you want the recline feature where the seat itself goes a bit flatter and this can be used in the car.

Or something with the in-built padding making the seat flatter for baby if that is something you'd like to look at. There are probably more of these than I'm aware of but these are the ones that I know which typically work really well:

Britax Baby-Safe: i-size / 2 i-size / 3 i-size, or i-Sense
Avionaut Pixel, Pixel Pro and Cosmo (also Venicci Ultralite, as someone else mentioned)
Maxi Cosi Pebble: Pro, Plus, or 360, also Maxi Cosi Coral.

I can find info for you about how each insert works as they aren't that clear on their product websites etc.

One issue with these seats with an insert is that most newborn inserts are designed to be removed when babies are approximately 60cm which is around 3 months old. Your baby being 3 months at the time of the big trip means it's uncertain whether you'll still be using the newborn insert at this time. Usually, there's a bit of flexibility and you can keep them in until around 4 months but if your baby is very long in the body, then they might not physically fit. On the other hand, if they don't need the newborn insert any more, then arguably they also don't need such a flat angle any more either. 3 months is a bit tricky of an age because it's more like 4 months that most babies have the really good head control e.g. can hold their own head up if you prop them in a sitting position.

There is an amazing looking seat coming out next year by Besafe, I saw a video last night and thought instantly of this thread, but I assume that will be too late for you. They don't actually have a release date yet but I have heard "Spring 2024".

Lastly I haven't included any longer lasting seats, but know of a couple which might be worth looking at if that was something you are interested in. I assume that you're wanting something that is compatible with the pram, though?

What I'd say to do if you have an option at all is to look for any large and/or independent baby goods shop near you, (to find one, look for e.g. Maxi Cosi or Britax stockists on their website and look for non-chains) and see if you can go there and have a look to see if they stock any of these models and you can physically try them out. If they happen to have a weighted, proportioned demo doll based on a roughly 3 month old baby (this is the 6kg doll) then that's really helpful as you can try out the doll in various different seats to see how they look and fit. You should also be able to try the seats in your car. This is helpful especially if you're able to measure the relative angles (e.g. spirit level app for smartphone). As often the shape of your seats and position of your isofix will make a difference in the individual fitting of the seat.

Then just some personal experience - we live in Germany and tend to drive back to the UK which is about 10 hours' total driving including a ferry trip (of course on the ferry you don't stay in the car, anyway.) We did one of these trips when DS2 was about 4 months old, at his first Christmas. DS1 would have been about 10. We had a Cybex Aton 5 car seat which uses a small polystyrene wedge under the baby to push them up into a flatter lying position, which wasn't that great for a tiny brand new newborn, but by the time of the trip it was OK and then we removed it anyway shortly after that. We did most of the driving at night. We did up to 3 hour stretches, maybe a single 3.5 hours and then I started to get too antsy. With the advice being 2 hours I wasn't that keen on pushing it, but 3 hours worked well anyway, as we all needed toilet and leg stretch breaks every so often, and at that age babies often still wake every couple of hours at night to feed, so it wasn't like we could just keep going for hours and hours and hours anyway plus it probably wouldn't have been a very good idea for the adults. What we did was just try to keep most of the stops very brief, literally just a toilet break, quick feed in the car and then back in the seat and back on the road. Depending on where your ferry break is in the journey, that might help too being a good long time out of the seat. We found that towards the end of the journey more frequent stops were necessary, so we were concentrating most of those longer stretches of driving to the very start of the trip and trying to cover as much ground as possible, which is still our approach now the DC are older.

maisiedaisy64 · 18/10/2023 20:16

Nuna do a nearly lie flat. If you can find somewhere still stocking the older model that was replaced in 2021/2022, you can get the base and car seat for about £300. It’s the Nuna arra. It was replaced by the Nuna arra next, which has a hefty price tag because the base isn’t included. But, it is compatible with a lot of prams

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 04/11/2023 06:28

Cybex cloud

CarSeatCofusion · 11/11/2023 13:40

Hi, thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. Been looking this week and my Mum wanted to buy the pram for me which is great! We've ordered one today which I'm really pleased with - I've gone for the Venicci upline which I absolutely love. For the car seat, the shop recommended the peg promo viaggo which reclines (fits the Venicci with adapters). Until visiting this shop today (large independent shop) I'd not heard of this brand but the lady said it reclines and is as good as the Cybex and the other recliners I'd looked at. However, it's not been mentioned on this thread and I don't know anyone that has ever had one, so can anyone advice/give any feedback? Thank you

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 12/11/2023 07:32

Peg Perego is not a brand usually seen in the UK as they use the Mamas and Papas branding here, and for whatever reason a few years ago now they dropped all of the M&P car seats and switched to Cybex as the official M&P car seat brand. Peg Perego continues to make and sell car seats in Europe which are perfectly fine to use here, but not generally marketed here.

As it's Venicci, what about the Venicci Ultralite? This is a rebranded version of the Avionaut Ultralite, which is the previous model to Avionaut Pixel. It has a fantastic flat position for newborn and works in a different way to other car seats. This video shows it quite well:

I don't know much about the primo viaggio lounge but just from looking at the pictures, the head position doesn't look that great and the chest clip is unnecessary/might get in the way on smaller babies.

Avionaut car seats at the Harrogate International Nursery Fair ‘23

Avionaut do a very nice range of car seats, from birth all the way to 150cm. There is the Pixel infant carrier, Aerofix ISOfix seat up to 105cm, Sky belt fit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIAVzUoLsNc

BertieBotts · 12/11/2023 07:57

Here is a picture of a 2.5kg (about 5lb 8oz) newborn in an Avionaut Pixel.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBaFJakKjOj/?hl=en

You can see that the way it fits is unusual, with the block under the child, but the back and neck are straight and very well supported.

And promo pics here showing a slightly older baby (3-4 months ish)

https://maibee.shop/products/avionaut-pixel-pro-iq-base

Avionaut Pixel Pro 2.0 C + IQ Base 2.0

Babyschale und Isofix-Station im Set! Die leichteste Babyschale auf dem Markt, besonders sicher, ergonomisch und lange mitwachsend von 40-86 cm (frühchengeeignet!). Dank ergonomischem Sitzkissen bleiben die Atemwege frei! Befestigung kann mit Autogurt...

https://maibee.shop/products/avionaut-pixel-pro-iq-base

CarSeatCofusion · 12/11/2023 12:35

@BertieBotts many thanks for your reply. I'm going to go back to the shop this week and I was thinking about the car seat and I wasn't 100%. Really appreciate your answer. I'm assuming they don't stock the Venicci ultra lite as they didn't suggest it. My criteria were 1) recline newborn seat, 2) don't went to spend a fortune, 3) pram easy to fold. Love the pram and my mum has paid a deposit but when we came away I was thinking that my number 1 criteria was the car seat and I I was concerned that I couldn't see any reviews/recommendations on line. I know the shop do stock the Cybex so if they don't have the ultra lite or can't order it, I might ask to switch to Cybex. I'll have a proper look at your pics and links above before I go in. Thanks again

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 12/11/2023 16:54

The Venicci prams have universal adapters as an option, so if they don't sell a car seat that you like, you can always get it with the adapters, and get a car seat somewhere else. Maybe at a car seat specific centre instead? There will be a solution so don't panic :)

BertieBotts · 12/11/2023 16:56

Aha this might be why - it looks like Venicci aren't doing the Ultralite any more but the Cosmo instead (still by Avionaut) - it's just a newer version, that's all.

Here's their product page about it.

https://www.venicci.co.uk/product/venicci-cosmo-car-seat

Venicci COSMO Car Seat

Venicci COSMO Car Seat - Venicci UK

https://www.venicci.co.uk/product/venicci-cosmo-car-seat

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