Joie elevate (hi back booster) in front seat of 2014 zafira

[GettingOldWithoutStyle]

Advice please as I am going around in circles. I have a Joie 360 rear facing for 1 year old and an isofix cybex for very skinny (13kg) nearly 4 year old. I also have a 6 year old who is 16kg who I have a Joie elevate for without harness. Should say all have solid seats in my DH car as he has 7 full sized seats and does all long distance driving as a family car. I'm now coming off maternity leave and will need very occasional i.e Oct half term/odd Christmas trip with all three kids. Handbook says no seats in front. Law says it's ok. Joie says it's ok in front seat. Am I ok to do this as long as seat is fully back with air bag on? Thanks 🙏

You have to go with what the handbook says or it invalidates your insurance.

Can you use the middle back seat?

Airbag off. Children and airbags is a no no.

Did you put the make and year into the jole website? The booster seat is normally okay fwd facing seat pushed right back.

It's unlikely that it would invalidate your insurance, but if the handbook says no, then there will be a reason why it's not a good idea to put a car seat there. It might be that you can't disable the airbag for example, airbags can be dangerous even for forward facing children.

Is it a Zafira or Zafira Tourer that you have? (Not sure if I'm looking at the right manual). And is it a seven seater - could you not put the HBB in the very back row?

What I'm seeing (I've looked at the Jan 2014 manuals for each version, which might not be correct)

Zafira (not Tourer) says:

No child seat of any type in front seats
Any child seat allowed in centre second row seats, but no isofix available.
Any forward facing (group 1 or 2/3) seat in third row, but no isofix points here.

Then the Zafira Tourer says:

Group 2/3 seats not allowed in front seat
BUT you CAN put a Group 1 (9-18kg) in the front seat with airbag disabled.
No child seats allowed on centre seat second row, at all.
Any belt fitted seat for any weight class in third row seats.

So I'm thinking, if you have the Zafira, it's a no go in the front but you could look at slimmer HBB seats to fit between the other two and/or look at replacing one or both isofix seats with a slimmer and/or belt fitted one to give you more (literal) wiggle room. Or put eldest DD in very back row in the HBB that you have.

And if you have the Zafira Tourer, then you could put the harness back in the Elevate and use it in Group 1 mode in the front until DD hits 18kg (which seems like it will be a few years). Or again put 6yo in the boot seats.

Legally, you're allowed to carry the eldest child without a car seat if you can't fit three in a row, but I wouldn't recommend doing that as the seatbelt is unlikely to fit her well at all at 16kg - it would be quite risky. (Also I don't know if it applies to 7 seater cars).

Thanks for the replies. It's a zafira, not a tourer. I checked with my insurance (RAC) and they have said there is no issue with insurance as the law says a hbb can go in the front. I have emailed Vauxhall to see if I can find a reason why it cant go there although tbh I don't expect a reply.

We've tried every narrow hbb I can find and none fit safely in the middle or leave enough room to actually click the seat belt in tbh as they end up pressed in so tight you can't reach the clicker.

Yes i did put the car make and model into Joie website and it says the hbb is fine in the front seat - that's the bit I don't understand tbh as it goes against the car manual

The airbag cannot be disabled unfortunately. It says I cannot put rear facing in the front but says it advises to go beyond that and not put a forward facing there either.

See screenshot

If you can't turn the airbag off it is not safe for them to be in the front seat rear or forward facing.

Doesn't that show a green tick on belted forward facing passenger seat?

Advice is to push seat back as far as you can

Current advice

Yes it does @jannier but my car manual says no seats 🤔

Do you have an under seat storage box? Some Zafiras do and you can't put seats on them.

No nothing like that. Vauxhall have their own range of seats they recommend. I've just looked and the seat is a high back booster recommended for the front seat. I can't see any reason why this one is any different.

Very strange my Zafira takes seats in all back and front....the tourer. But the year before doesn't sounds like a marketing thing

Yes that's what I think. Joie and others say the seat is ok in the front. It feels like they want me to buy the vauxhall seat but there's no logical explanation why it actually makes it safer.

Can you fit three in the back if you have the Elevate in the middle and the other two seats for the younger two rear-facing?

@INeedNewShoes no. I've tried every high back i can get my hands on. It's due to the side protection bits bumping into one another. It's not a full sized middle seat so it would need to be very narrow

That's very weird that they would approve their own HBB seat in the front but not another brand. Would be interesting to see if you get a reply from Vauxhall.

Is it possible that their own-brand one contains a transponder that disables the airbag, but it's not possible to disable it manually? That's the only reason that I can think of that they would say yes, ours is fine, nobody else's is.

You could certainly contact Joie as well and see what they say. Looking at their fit guide they have only the 2006-2014 version listed - it might be they haven't tested versions newer than 2014, which might be the one that you have.

The back row is a total no go for you? Or are there 5-seater versions of the Zafira? I can see that Joie don't approve the seat in the back row, but you could probably find a seat for one of the children that is approved. (Could be another thing to ask Joie - sometimes the X means not tested, rather than found to be unsafe.)

It's possible that you could fit three across the centre if you're willing to change the other two seats. For example Axkid have rear facing seats which will fit most 1yos (although, possibly not if your 1yo is on the smaller side like the older two) and these can be fitted far enough forward that they don't interact at all with a high backed booster. You may even be able to fit this in the middle so that the two FF children are at the sides. Cybex may be bulky for FF as well - is it a spin seat or an impact shield one? You could consider putting the 3yo into the Elevate harnessed, and then getting a new HBB for eldest. Or look at some of the i-size harnessed 123 type seats like Silver Cross Balance or Britax Evolvafix. Though if you have tall and slim children this can be a problem as they tend to have 105cm harness limits.

Often the side impact block things can be removed or folded away if they are causing an issue fitting other seats. They don't do anything on the inside (or middle seat either side) anyway, as their function is to close space and act as a brace and/or crumple zone between the seat and the door. But I am not sure if you're talking about these block things or the actual side wings of the seats, which can't be removed.

If totally totally stuck you could look at a backless booster for the middle, but I'd be extremely loathe to recommend this for a 16kg child regardless of age. I can't tell you if that's a bigger or smaller risk compared with putting the seat in the front against advice. Sorry :(

Thanks @BertieBotts the vauxhall and axkid are approved for the front seat but they don't have the airbag disablers.

I have contacted Joie but no response yet.

I am looking at hbb for my eldest in the middle but no luck yet. The Graco max junior is just 41cm wide and theoretically fits between the Joie 360 and Joie elevate BUT there is no gap to click my eldest seatbelt in (or more alarmingly, unclick!) So it's not going to work. Unless I can find a 40cm wide seat which has a narrower back so I can put my hand in a gap to click the seatbelt in, it's just not going to work.

At the moment I don't see an option except the front.

I've also tried using the narrow Graco max junior and the Joie bold (narrow 123 seat to replace the elevate) hoping if I buy both new seats it would work, but again I can't reach the seatbelt clicker thing

It really doesn't help that Mothercare has gone and Halfords are just woeful tbh.

Are you anywhere near an In car safety centre? It’s a specialist car seat shop. Branches in Milton Keynes and two others I can’t remember

What I'm thinking with the Axkid is that it could replace the rear facing seat for the 1yo, it sits a bit further forward so you should be able to get to the buckle in the middle a bit easier, especially if you put it on the side where the centre and side buckles meet.

This is a newer version but the fitting is similar.

https://images.immediate.co.uk/production/volatile/sites/28/2022/07/Axkid-Minikid-3-outside-shot-from-side-on-and-front-on-40f703e.jpg?quality=90&webp=true&fit=750,500