Rear facing seat belt

[whoami24601]

Hi! I've got a 15 month old and I'm looking to buy the next size car seat for him. Unfortunately I can't have an isofix in my car so it has to be seatbelt or top tether. He hasn't totally outgrown his infant seat, but is finding it frustrating to be laid down so I'd like one that can be more upright as well as reclined in a rear facing position. I've already got a forward facing maxi cosi Tobi which can be his next seat, I just need something to bridge the gap!

Any ideas? I'm struggling to find one that fits the bil! Thanks

If he's not predicted to be more than 18kg by 4 then the Joie stages is a good choice. If he is tall or heavier than the 50th centile then a 25kg rear facing seat like the Axkid Minikid or Move or the Britax Two Way Elite or Maxway are good choices.

Belt fitted seats won't have a recline setting but they're much more flexible than isofix seats so you can install them with the recline that you need for his current stage.

I looked at the joie stages and it looked perfect, but the rear facing settings are very reclined like a baby seat. The lady in the shop said it's not recommended to have it more upright if rear facing. The other two look good but it's hard to tell on a website!

Where do people go to look at car seats in the flesh these days?!

Anyone about that knows about car seats?

Halfords and smyths toys have car seats.
They can also fit them for you so you can see how it will look

Would fully recommend axkid minikid. I bought it from kiddies Kingdom - it came the next day I got it online! There's lots of good YouTube videos about how to properly put it in the car. It can rear face to 25kg and is one of the safest car seats!

Joie stages is the one I had, it's not that reclined really. All RF seats are more reclined to some extent.

The Joie seats (Tilt, Steadi, Stages, Every stage, Verso) are the only seatbelt fitted ones in the category you're looking at. It's due to the way they fit that they need to have that recline. It's not just not recommended to have it in a more upright recline, it's actually unsafe as it would compromise the fitting. You could also look at something like the britax first class plus if you only want to rear face until 13kg (about 2), but you'll have the same issue. I think from memory it's slightly more upright than a baby seat but I don't know if it's more or less so than a joie seat. Probably the same. Did you have it installed without the wedge insert? At 15 months most babies won't need this and that gives you a less flat seating position.

There are more upright rear facing seats if you look at the ones that go up to 25kg, but this doesn't sound like what you want if you want to later use the Maxi Cosi Tobi. Also these seats are expensive and start at £180. However they are much safer than the Tobi and will last longer if that's something you want to bear in mind. They are specialist seats so you won't find them in a normal shop, but one of these specialists will have them: www.carseatadvice-uk.com/specialist-retailers.html perhaps there is one near you?

Hold on, when you say you can't have isofix but can have top tether - do you mean because you have storage boxes in the back, or because you physically don't have isofix points?

I'm not averse to rear facing for as long as possible. I just mentioned the Tobi as it's an option for later on. We have isofix points, but have underfloor storage in the back so can't have the foot. I haven't really looked at top tether as I don't really understand it I'm just wanting something.more upright but that has the option of being reclined for the times when he might want to nap. Thanks for all the advice!

OK, that makes sense :)

Not much to understand with top tether. That's where you have a strap that comes over the top of the child seat, over the back of your vehicle seat and attaches to a hook (anchor point) on the back of the seat or in the boot. All cars after 2013 have this, if yours is older, it depends on the original spec - you'll have to check the manual. You are looking for a symbol which is like a car seat plus a ship's anchor. Be careful not to mistake luggage hooks for top tether anchors.

With rear facing car seats (and ideally with forward facing too, but it's less crucial) you need at least three points of anchorage to the car to reduce forward motion in a crash. The isofix provides two or the lap belt provides two, one either side. The third then in most cases is a support leg. As you can't use this, you've got three other options -

1. The diagonal part of the seatbelt going around the back of the seat, as in an infant seat - this is why you're getting the problem of them being too reclined. It has to be at that angle to get the right tension with the seatbelt. It also means the seatbelt is in the way to get them in.

1. Top tether. Only two rear facing seats on the market use this, and one of them is a load of rubbish (you have to undo the tether to swivel the seat!)

1. Bracing on the front seats - this is rare and you only find it in a couple of 25kg weight limit seats (Britax Two Way Elite/Diono Radian 5) - All the other 25kg seats use a support leg.

So since you have isofix and top tether there is one other (good) option open to you which is the Maxi Cosi Axissfix Plus. That allows you to rear face up to 87cm (about 2), but is more upright than an infant carrier and can be forward facing until 18kg, or you could move to the Tobi - but I think the Axissfix is a bit better on safety than the Tobi owing to the top tether. Only issue is it's expensive.

Just to confuse you a bit further (sorry!) there are some instances where you can use a support leg with storage boxes:

• Where the manufacturer makes a filler/spacer for the box which allows the lid to support a car seat leg (sometimes called "stay")

• In brand new cars (2018/2019 onwards) of some brands, the lid of the box is reinforced to allow car seat leg usage - but you must check your manual to see if this is for particular weight classes only.

• Where the leg can be adjusted to miss the box - you can get this on some seats that have flexibility in the angle of the leg, or flexibility in the position of the child seat on the vehicle seat (25kg seats often have this, for example). I want to say try BeSafe seats for this, but I'm not confident enough to say order online.

• Where the leg can be extended to the bottom of the box. For example Axkid make a leg extension which can allow this.

To be honest the latter two are a bit complicated and your best bet would be to visit an ERF specialist to get their advice tailored to your car. With the 25kg seats as well (bracing or more flexibility in support legs) you tend to have lower tethers involved which are a bit more complicated than top tether and less common. They can fit in any car, but it can be a bit daunting if you're not expecting it.

So to sum up I reckon your options are:

• Keep using baby seat until totally outgrown even if DC not happy with it (maybe try battery powered fairy lights in the car?)

• Move to forward facing even though he's only just the minimum recommended age

• Use a seat such as Joie Tilt/Stages/Britax First Class which is as reclined as the baby seat, but larger - toddlers do tend to be a bit happier in these seats.

• Maxi Cosi Axissfix Plus, with top tether and no leg

• Britax Two Way Elite (The Maxway is an absolute no with storage boxes, Britax are strict about it.)

• Contact ERF specialist to get advice about seats with leg to avoid/use with your box, e.g. BeSafe or Axkid.

Actually - I would probably rule out the bracing seats and the Axkid, as while they can be installed in a reclined position, they can't be reclined on the go as and when he is napping. For this you need an isofix seat. So the Axissfix Plus by Maxi Cosi is the only seat that will do exactly what you want, unless you can find an isofix seat with a leg that can miss the storage box or a way to reinforce the box so that a leg is allowed. BeSafe do make a couple of isofix seats, you could try looking on their website for stockists to see if anywhere near you has one to try out.

I've come across another one! BabyAuto Infinity Fix can be rear facing up to 18kg, and uses top tether instead of support leg.

Just seen an ex-display axissfix plus in my local Halfords for £220! Thanks for the recommendation or I wouldn't have even looked at it! Xx

Oh brilliant! :)

I also don't have isofix and I have the Joie stages. It does have to be fully reclined for rear facing but even fully reclined is not that reclined if that makes sense

Bought and fitted she even knocked it down to £200 for me!