A carseat with non-twisty-straps for Houdini (20 months)

[webminx]

DS2 is 20 months old (thinks he's 4yo) and is a big lad. We have a Recaro Young Sport from DS1 that we use but hate it - sits very high, difficult to put on the isofix, hard to secure with seatbelt when you don't use the isofix, straps twist about and get stuck and worst of all, DS2 somehow manages to escape from the chest straps EVERY time even when they're pulled extremely tight and he's without his coat. Hit crisis point yesterday when he had once again escaped and anchored only by the crotch bit of the 5-point harness, tipped over to one side and managed to open the seatbelt that secures his car seat to the actual car. Cue him sliding up and down the back seat in his car seat giggling with delight as I frantically tried to pull over and DS1 tried to hold him still.

I am therefore eager to hear all recommendations for a front-facing, multi-stage car seat - preferably one with straps that don't get constantly twisted, are easy adjustable and just generally, you know, safe.

I am also debating just getting one of those carseat strap clips, but know they're not recommended/legal in the UK so also interested in experiences with these. Am really worried as we do a lot of driving with the kids in the car and would like to get a good replacement asap!

Please hit with me with your carseat recommendations for a 20month old Houdini!

Preferably one that can be secured using a seatbelt, not solely isofix - we have to switch between my/DH/childminder's car seats etc.

Have a look at the Britax Evolva. It's a Group 1-2-3 seat, the straps have quite thick and long foam pads on them that might possibly make it harder for your son to get his arms out. It fits in the car with the car seat. I
One possible downside is that I have heard of children being able to unfasten the harness buckle, and your son sounds like a determined child! The buckle is unfastened by pushing the red part down from the top of the buckle rather than the red bit being on the front of the buckle and you having to push it in (if you see what I mean!). It could be quite easy for a child to get their thumbs on top of the buckle and push down if they were curious about these things and determined to escape!
It is a good seat though (I've had it in the past and now have a Britax Multi Tech II rear facing seat which is the exact same seat but with a foot prop on the back and tether straps). You'd just need to go and have a look at it 'in person'.

^ that should say it fits in the car with the seatbelt

I would definitely go for an impact shield seat in your situation. They are pricey but brilliant. They go in any car because the seatbelt is the fitting (although you can get isofix ones too) and you can get one which changes to a booster later, if you want to (personally I'm not convinced it's worth the difference in price, over just buying a separate high backed booster later.)

The impact shield is not as easy to escape as a five point harness and very easy to do up. The child also has freer movement of their upper body which might placate him as well. DS loved his. It was a great seat (we had a Kiddy one, an older model they don't make any more.)

If you would prefer to stick with 5 point harness, look at this: 5 point plus - it shows you how they escape even when the straps are pulled tight and it's a safety tested product which prevents them doing it. This is not the same as the chest clips which aren't tested - this is legal and recommended by car seat manufacturers too.

We had an evolva, and plenty of toys and distractions attached to keep the little sod's hands busy

Thanks all! We're off to Halfords tomorrow for a look at the evolve and an impact shield model if they have one.
Today I turned around to help his brother get his lego down from the top shelf (where it is kept for obvious reasons). During the minute it took for me to do so, DS2 climbed up the dining room table like a rat up a drainpipe and emptied my mother's day flowers & water all over himself before dropping the vase on the floor with a splendid flourish and a resounding crash. He was thrilled with himself. The child's a (delightful) menace...

Halfords sell five point plus. They don't carry any impact shield seats, though. You're looking at two brands: Cybex and Kiddy.

Mothercare and John Lewis both stock the Cybex seats, John Lewis also stocks Kiddy seats. Mamas and Papas stores carry only the Cybex Sirona which is an extended rear facing seat which has a shield but does rather more than you want, I think, but might be an option to look at a shield seat if you can't get to anywhere else.

Webminx I don't think anyone has manufactured a straightjacket harness yet. Could be quite popular as you're certainly not alone

Forward facing at 20 months should never be an option. Your child is not even two years old. It's 500% less safe than a rear facing seat. There are lots of seats which will last to at least age 4 and fit into all kinds of cars.

A forward facing impact cushion seat is the absolute last seat you should even use. I wrote a few lines about these seats here, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/car_seats_chat/2325352-Cybex-Sirona-18month-old-working-his-arms-out-of-harness. Britax UK has also done a good piece with video abut the very serious safety issues.

In summary the safety issues are huge abdominal pressure, large neck loads, submarining, rollover ejection and chest deflation. The seats are also warm and uncomfortable.

The issue with the harness has little or nothing to do with the car seat. It's a parenting issue which has to do with discipline. Some young children are very creative which is a good thing. When a child tries to get out of the harness he/she should be met with a very strong response. Stop the car, leave the child at home, remove the favourite snack, take the favourite toy, remove the safety blanket, raise your voice or do something you find appropriate. The child should immediately know that this behaviour will not under any circumstances be tolerated. I guess bribing is a last resort for those who can't discipline their kids

This is nothing different than teaching out kids not to play with matches, place hands on the stove, don't drink cleaning liquid, don't run into the street, don't jump down the stairs, don't hit other kids,etc. It's basic parenting.

Wow, patronising much? Since you started I will join in. 500% less is a nonsense. It doesn't even make sense. I suppose what you want to say is that it is only 20% as safe as a rear facing seat (which is disputed, anyway.)

No parent is willing to pay out £200 for a new car seat without having even attempted discipline, what planet are you on. Of course OP has tried those things. And "bribery" of course the magical last resort A child is a person with free will, short of duct taping their arms to the ceiling, there is no way to prevent them from getting their arms out, whereas preventing their access to all other dangerous things is possible.

Impact shields are crash tested and perfectly safe, they do not perform as well in certain situations, just like any design of seat - it is impossible to design the perfect seat for all situations. Britax does not sell impact shield seats; they have a vested interest in claiming they are unsafe. In fact I seem to recall one of the major manufacturers claiming rear facing was unsafe, when it is clearly not.

I would say that a rear facing car seat where the child is less visible would be a totally stupid thing to buy when dealing with a child who repeatedly removes their arms from the harness. Great! Now you have a child who can secretly remove their arms from the harness, without you realising, or with you squinting into a tiny mirror all the time trying to work out if their arms are in or not. Children of not yet two don't understand why they need to be in a harness. It's our job to keep them safe.

Fact remains a child escaping the harness is a parenting issue. Nothing else. Some seats are slightly better or worse than others but difference is small. Having a serious talk with a child works very well from 15-18 months. Unless the child has some special needs.

For the youngest kids it's of course more about raising the voice than an actual long conversation. Nothing different than teaching a child not to place hands on the hot stove, run down the stairs, jump into the pool alone, don't jump into the campfire or eat cleaning liquid. If it happens it should be met with a strong reaction.

The FACT about rear facing car seats being 500% safer than forward facing seats has been shown through peer reviewed research many times over. You might look into facts before coming with opinions, thoughts of beliefs. Or perhaps actually check on some research. One could also look at real life experiences like Sweden where the fatality rate for young kids basically is zero each year thanks to using rear facing seats since 1965.

You could try this, injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/13/6/398.abstract?ijKey=94a5a0898eccc833e6b3d528d7da6b25327a54ef&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha, which shows Rf seats being five times safer (500% safer). Or perhaps the recent BMJ researh bout RF to age 4 www.bmj.com/content/338/bmj.b1994.full.

You can also check peer reviewed research by Henary showing RF being five times, 500% safer,www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2598309/.

Impact shield seats use a loophole in the ECE R44 standard which we are trying to close by introducing abdominal sensors in the new series of Q-dummies. Not only are impact shield seats warm and uncomfortable but the safety issues are real. They only pass by using the loophole with huge abdominal forces since it's not measured. The other safety issues are real and not made up. Never place a child in a FF seat with impact shield cushion.

You should see what happens when a impact shield seat is turned upside down. The child is ejected. And that even happens by using dummies for certification which are far stiffer than a normal child.