Utterly baffled about car seat options

[Lung]

Hi All,
1st post here, so please go easy on a poor dad-to-be :)

I'm looking in to transport for our baby, and am utterly baffled by the various options available. Am I better off going for a straightforward 3 in 1 travel system, or a better car seat plus the extras needed like a pushchair, or going for a larger, fixed chair and the extras? I'm really struggling to weigh up the various pros and cons of each option as I have no experience in what I need or don't need.

The options I'm looking at currently are:
a) 3 in 1: Venicci Mini
This looks great, but the car seat is only rated to 10kg and would need to be replaced quite quickly.

b) Cybex Cloud Q seat + a frame to attach it to.
This seat looks fantastic as it allows fully flat lying. However, the Priam frame that it's designed to fix to is very expensive, and Cybex aren't saying which 3rd party frames it will attach to yet. I'd also need a larger seat for the car eventually and another seat to make it a stroller for a toddler.

c) Cybex Sirona + totally separate pram.
This seat is fixed, but will last up to 4 years of age, so considerably longer than the other 2 options. I'd then need a separate pram/pushchair, plus some way to safely carry the baby into and out of the house or on short journeys, where a car seat would normally suffice. Would a sling work here?

Many thanks for any help provided.

Trouble is it really depends on what works for you. For me I had an infant carrier for the first 6 months and it was very useful to be able to remove it from the car for the first couple of months but after that I didn't get along with it and switched to a be safe izi kid i size. My husband is very tall and struggles getting DS out of the car so he has the britax dual fix in his car and because of the swivel feature he finds it significantly easier. However this and the cyber sirona I can't see how they will last to 4 years because they are so small? My 3.5 yo niece sat in both our car seats and was fine in mine but in the dual fix she got upset and asked to get out immediately. Her head was quite far above the top too (she's pretty short too). Also, I'd think about your requirements for the pram before you buy a system if you haven't. Good luck there are about a million choices!

I would say that you need to be considering the pram and the car seat as totally separate purchases. That way you can buy any pram you fancy, that suits your lifestyle (big wheels for lots of walking, smaller buggy if you live in an urban area and use public transport a lot etc) and you can get the car seat that fits best in your car.

I really don't like the term 'travel system' - I think it means a lot of parents just get an infant carrier car seat just because it's the one that comes with the pram, they over-use it on the pram wheels instead of putting the baby in the actual pram, and then then insist that the infant carrier is outgrown when the baby hits 9 months and they buy a forward facing car seat far too early.

I don't think you need a car seat that can be used on the pram wheels, especially when it's your first baby. I never had one for my first two babies, but did borrow one from a friend for a short time when I had my third because there were times when I was alone with three children that it was easier just to be able to at least get the baby ready to go out and into the car seat in the house.

I used the carseat on the frame appoximately 3 times between both children. It looks nifty but the truth is they are bloody heavy and awkward to carry any distance further than about 5 feet and it gets worsr the heavier the baby becomes.

Now they are talking about having baby rear facing til 15 months the carseats are becoming bigger anyway.

The sensible thing is to choose the seat and the pushchair separately as the poster above suggested, take your time over both purchases, check out the safety ratings, and get as good as you can afford.

Also check whether your car wikl fit the seat you like. Youd be surprised how often they can be3 incompatible.

[http://incarsafetycentre.co.uk/ in car safety centre]] is a very good place to start. They are experts and also great on the2 phone when you need help.

I would get a pram, then a 0-4 seat. The sirona is good, but the besafe company do some up to 25kg (sirona only 18kg), so that's more like 0-5/6 years.

in car safety centre

If you're concerned about safety, I'd pick the car seat first and the pushchair/pram separately.

Your basic options for car seats for a newborn are:

• The basic baby carrier seat. These are the most varied. You've got extremely safe ones which get Which Best Buy awards (typically Maxi Cosi and Britax, although other brands are available.) This is the kind you can click into a pushchair, and is probably the most practical. They go up to 13kg (don't touch with a bargepole one which goes up to 10kg). You can also get really crap ones of these, so watch out for them. Good signs of crapness are: Seat belt guides across the back look flimsy, seat itself looks shallow, seat fabric is shiny and cheap looking rather than smooth and nice looking, Seatbelt guides across the front are rough and unfinished. It doesn't make a difference safety wise if this seat is three or five point harness, but do make sure you can tighten the straps by pulling on a long string at the bottom. Useful things to look for are clips to hold the straps out of the way, a handle which can be moved to different positions, a sun shade and of course a compatible pushchair, but these are all optional.

• A lie flat carrycot type seat. These are supposed to be better for newborn's breathing, but I think they are a bit of a con to prey on new parents' worries. They're not as safe as a (good) normal baby carrier seat, although the good brands might be better than a cheap carrier type seat. There are only about two models of these approved, and they're really expensive. Plus, they only go up to 10kg typically, which is about 6-9 months.

(The 10kg/13kg thing is based on "Groups". When car seat groups were first introduced it was done on weight class. There was an overlap planned, so you have Group 0, 0-10kg, rear facing, Group 1, 9-18kg, harnessed forward facing, Group 2, 15-36kg, high backed booster and Group 3, 25-36kg, low boosters. Since then, car seat standards have improved and baby seats are now produced in Group 0+ which is 0-13kg. The other "groups" remain the same, although seats available in each group have changed slightly. More later.)

• A Group 0/1 combination or Group 0+/1 combination. These stay in the car all the time, and go rear facing to 10 or 13kg (again watch those groups) and from 9kg they can be used forward facing as well, so can be a good investment. You will even find some which claim to cover Group 0/1/2 which is "the only car seat you will ever need!" Don't bother with these (with one exception) - they are almost all flimsy and shocking TBH. Maybe useful for an emergency seat when you don't know the age of the child you'll be carrying, but a car seat won't last 12 years without degrading or being superseded in safety regs anyway, so it's a false economy.

When looking for one of these seats, stick with a Group 0+/1, not a 0/1. The 0/1 ones are really cheap and nasty. With a 0+/1, you can save money, assuming you don't have another baby within 4 or so years and don't change your mind later on the Group 1 seat you choose.

• What is called a "from birth extended rear facing seat". These tend to be expensive, but around the same or even less than buying a top rated Group 0+ and Group 1 seat separately. The rear facing issue is basically that it's always safest for your child to travel rear facing, and it's important not to turn your baby too early. This will allow you to continue rear facing until 18kg (around 4 years) with the same seat - if you decide on that later, then you'll kick yourself for not having bought one of these earlier. With a normal carry type Group 0+ you can stay rear facing for 12-18 months, combination 0+/1 up to about 2-2.5 years, and it's likely rear facing Group 1 seats are going to continue to come down in price, if you want to wait and see. There is a seat in this category called the Joei Stages, which is the only Group 0+/1/2 seat on the market currently I would ever recommend anyone buy.

• The other thing to consider is a shared base - I think this is a bit gimmicky, because it effectively ties you in to using a Maxi Cosi seat, but anyway, they sell a base which you can click both the Group 0+ and the Group 1, or even an extended rear facing seat, into.

To make it all even more baffling, there are new seats coming out which don't use groups but something called i-size. This is new legislation and there aren't many seats which conform to it yet. It will become law in 2018, although you'll probably be allowed to keep using existing seats you already own, so I wouldn't worry about this at all yet. It does encourage longer rear facing but there are plenty of options for doing that now, if you want to.

Thank you all for your help and advice. I'd read that it was better to choose a car seat first and then fit the rest around it, so I think I'll take that advice.

With that in mind, I think I'm leaning towards a fixed, larger seat like the Sirona. I liked the look of the Britax Dualfix but apparently Which? found it to be decidedly unsafe, so I'm not sure about that one.

Take a look at the new 'besafe izi Combi X4 isofix'.

It looks great as more compact to use in different cars, and the leg bar folds up as part of the seat so easier to move say to friends car/ or if you need to fly with it for hire car abroad

Thanks Artandco,
I hadn't come across that seat. As it's not released yet, I can't find any reviews of it.

OP we have a Dualfix and love it. I haven't read the Which review but know that ERF seats tend to get relatively poor reviews due to fitting issues. Either way, any seat is only safe if it is properly installed.

We had a maxicosi cabriofix and at 9 months switched to the Dualfox as DD was too heavy to carry in the baby seat and we were TTC and wanted to swivel function while I was pg. We'll reuse the cabriofix for the new baby.

The benefit of a maxicosi seat like the cabriofix is all the major brands sell compatible pushchairs, but do remember that the car seat is not suitable for hours and hours of use at a time.

I have the Sirona, and I wish I'd known about being able to buy it to use from birth (we bought it when DS was 18m). We bought the maxi-cosi because that is all I knew about at the time.
Next baby (DD) won't be using it much as DS is still in it (he is approaching 3, and about 14kg), but I will probably make use of it with DD if I happen to be out with her in the car on her own.
I really love it, and think it is a great seat.

Teaandhobnobs - how does he find the impact shield? I've heard if older children not being so keen or comfy with it.

This time around I have gone for a travel system - I am expecting twins and need to do a school run twice a day - 10 mins in the car and 5 mins walking - I'm sure as hell not going to be waking two sleeping babies to put them in a carrycot!

Saying that, I agree with a previous poster - I had absolutely no need at all to put the car seat on the pram chassis with my first two children. I used the carrycots until older than 6 months (I know people say babies grow out of them but I had large babies and didn't find that!!) so much more comfy for sleeping. I did do a lot of walking and very little driving though. I love within walking distance of town, shops, toddler groups etc.

Anything we haven't used it, we are still rearfacing.
I have been tempted to try it recently, as he is a real houdini and gets his arms out the straps (he has very sloping shoulders which seem to aid his escape), but actually he hates having things on his chest, so I think it would freak him out. We are succeeding with dinosaur sticker bribery at the moment

I haven't read the Which? report either as I don't have a membership, but Britax have a large rebuttal on their page here:
www.britax.co.uk/customer-service/product-information-dualfix

Sounds very odd Lung.

car seat and separate pram. It's not good for babies to spend a lot of time in the car seat, so you don't want to take long walks with that on the frame. As a previous poster said, they are also bloody heavy - so it's easier just to pop the baby in a sling/carrier than to drag the whole car seat around with you.

If I didn't have the newborn seat from DC1 already, I would just buy Sirona to use from birth.

DS had an impact shield seat until four years old and I found it brilliant. He had the odd moment of not wanting to go in it - but what toddler doesn't? For the most part he liked it and seemed to find it comfortable. The "table" was very useful and the seat felt very sturdy and safe. DH used to call it his "tank"

We have the Sirona and it's great, although I agree it might be a bit cosy for a 4yo.

Re: the infant car seat going on the pram chassis, I think it depends on your lifestyle. If you are going to drive somewhere for a few hours then you should get the baby out. If you are going to do a lot of nipping about, like the pp daily school run, or in and out of local shops, it is worth the convenience.

We have the Jané Rider with the Strata carseat which has good safety ratings. Absolute bugger to get baby in and out of though

That video is very flashy but it doesn't show you how tight the straps are over the "newborn" dummy, or how small it is. It's good that they show the various tests where the dummy stays in place.

Looking at this review:
mummyisagadgetgeek.co.uk/review/britax-dualfix-review-from-newborn-to-4/

The straps are far too loose for a (very new!) newborn there, but the reviewer has made them too loose on the 2.5 year old as well, so could be user error.

This from 3.13 or so shows a fairly little baby in the seat. The shoulder straps do look wide here, which is a shame - I do think a small, slight-shouldered newborn might risk not being restrained accurately enough and with rear facing, the shoulder straps are paramount because in an accident the force pushes them up the seat. A shame because all Britax need to do to correct this is make the lower shoulder strap holes closer together or perhaps allow adjustable sliders from side to side which can be fixed in place. That ought to be common sense, really - in a seat which caters for several ages of children they need to think about those things.

I haven't tried a newborn in a Dualfix as yet but I do think a visual test cannot be as stringent as the crash tests Britax have put the seats through with an actual newborn dummy.

The worry I have is that no dummy can simulate a wriggly baby and how they can get themselves out of almost anything :)

I had a maxi cosi cabriofix and now have a dualfix which I think is very safe whatever which may think. Other posters are correct that you don't want baby in car seat any more than is necessary. However, the ability to use maxi cosi cabriofix to take baby in/out of the car without waking I found very useful. Imagine the scenario where you've got back from shops and want to unload your shopping etc - with a baby carrier you can safely put baby in the house (hopefully still asleep) while you sort everything out rather than having to wake baby straightaway to get him unbuckled.

It's not a cheap route, but a cabriofix type for 6-9 months and then a Dualfix or Sirona until 3 ish, ERF as long as possible feels like a good balance to me and avoids any newborn issue.

OP newborns aren't as wriggly as you might think. It tends to be older children who wriggle out of straps. They don't even find their own hands until about 3 months Safety in a crash is a different issue and I'd think that's what Britax tested. Hard to tell as a layperson though I suppose.