Top tips for Expedition camping in heavy snow needed

[snorkie]

DS is doing DoE expedition Sat-Wed in the Lakes. I've just seen the forecast here & am a bit horrified.

He obviously has to carry everything he takes, but any advice for keeping warm/dry?

Whatever he does, he will get cold and wet.

Exra pairs of socks and some of those hand warmers?

Lot's of layering. Wear a hat at night. Could you pick him up a couple of those gel heat pack things that you snap to heat up? They're re-usable, I think you just boil them to re-set which he should be able to do at camp.

hmm, hand warmers - I've got some of those somewhere. thamks. I'll dig them out. Problem, will be convincing him to take anything extra: "I'll be alright mum!"

Do you think I should insist on gaitors?

Definitely gaitors.

Gaitors, thermal underwear, waterproof trousers. Ski gloves. Bivvy bag. Lots of chocolate/mint cake.

I used to do lots of that sort of thing as a teenager. They used to make us eat huge greasy breakfasts, they insisted that made all the difference for a day's walking in winter mountains.

It used to be great fun.

I have a D of E weekend this weekend in the Dark Peak. Our rules state that if there is snow on the ground then the weekend is cancelled.

Expeditions should be in summer conditions only which is why they take place between the end of March and end of October. I think you should check with his leader to see what they are planning to do if it does snow as the candidates won't be trained to navigate, camp etc in the snow.

Failing that lots of layers and a I second a couple of those hand warmers that he can heat up before he starts and then click them during the day (2 goes for the price of one then!). If he was in one of our groups and didn't have proper equipment he wouldn't be deemed safe enough to go out and would be putting the rest of his group at risk.

That's interesting Bump, I did wonder how extreme the weather would have to be before they cancelled. I shall find out.

It may also be worth phoning the regional office/council's outdoor education co-ordinator, our council is very hot on "one flake and your out of there"!!!

I am praying for snow, but it looks like I'll have to settle for rain instead!

would that be the region I live in or the region the Lakes are in?

It should be across the board. The leaders should have an Mountain Leadership or a Walking Group Leader's Award. These enable you to supervise groups in the summer (end of March-end of Oct - D of E rules). If the leader has a summer ML or WGLA they can only supervise in the summer, if they have winter ML they can do outside this time frame, but the YPs won't be trained for this sort of weather.

Playing by the rules they shouldn't go out if there is snow on the ground, whether they can get away with it depends on the council the group are part of (the ourdoor ed person signs to say they can go). If someone from the lakes is assessing then it will depend on their rules too.

He's had kit checked OK. Doesn't have a survival bag though. Sleeping bag is a good 2-season one allegedly OK down to -2C (comfort limit) and 'survival' down to -7C.

I'm feeling like a mother hen worrying here

I'm sure he will be fine, just remind him that if he gets cold it will be very hard for him to warm up so he should try not to get cold by wearing the extra clothes you have packed!!

Good sleeping bag - and make sure he keeps it dry. Put it in several waterproof bags. Rubble sacks will do. Can survive most things as long as sleeping bag dry at night. Advise wearing thermals and hat etc in bed. If he has thermals, then that's better than wearing T-shirts.

Also hot chocolate sachets etc. Hot food helps so much but many DofE participants don't bother and try to survive on cereal bars

He'll be fine though. I'm a DofE leader and have had groups camping in October when it has snowed and it's been fine.

Bumpinthenight - I think you're right but thought there were some grey areas about some snow being acceptable in 'summer' conditions.

There are definitely grey areas, my "snow on the ground" is different to other people's!

We've been out and then it has snowed a bit, but we are already out so the decision is made to continue and see how it goes, but our March expedition is just training and practice not the real thing; the leaders walk with the YPs and they make the decision to come off the hills.

The handbook says "the expedition must take place at an appropriate time of year for the expedition's location and aim and enjoyment of the participants." It also states that "the practice should be of a similar environment to the qualifying expedition". Did it snow on the practice or will it snow during the assessed expedition?!?

This is the assessed exp. The practice was in October in the Peak district when the weather might be expected to be similar, but in fact was cold but fine.

I think it will be OK I have looked at the met office mountain area forecast and it doesn't seem quite as bad as the metcheck one.

A sleeping bag liner.