Techie tent question.....is it all about HH !

[babycino]

Hi, am reluctantly having to downsize from my Montana6 which am having to sell as will not be getting any more than weekends/festival camping for the next couple of years...but.. DH has agreed we can spend the money on a good smaller tent..favourites so far are Vango Yukon or Outwell Nebraska as I want side by side as ds only 2 and also SIG as am wimp....am big fan of Outwell as quality of Monty so goood compared to Vango in past but...Vango is 5000HH and OUtwell only 3000....(also needs to be less than 20kg due trauma of lugging Monty uphill at festival!) sorry to ramble but help please!

HH relates to the water pressure a fabric can withstand before it leaks.

So if you put a long long tube over a piece of the fly sheet of the Vango, and filled it up with water, the water would be 5000mm high (5metres) before the water would start to come through.

Likewise the outwell could support 3m of water before it started to leak.

However, if you go to ukcs and do a search on HH you will see it is quite a contraversial 'measurement' and some feel it is being used by the manufacturers as a big selling point for their tents.

iirc someone over there said that in the olden days (so like 10 years ago) most tents bought in this country (ie 2 season family camping tents) only had a HH of 1500 and they didn't leak. Now the benchmark is usually 2000...so people will advise you that your bargain from Lidl with a HH of 1000 may not withstand a typical british Bank Holiday.

With regards to your 2 tents, I don't imagine the HH will make much of a difference, as if it rains most leaks will occur through the seams anyway (if they haven't been taped correctly).

tbh if I was buying another tent (and I'm not, I'm absolutely not oh no DH would kill me), I would be looking at the designs to compare how they stand up to wind. After this BH and all the tents that have been trashed, I would be more concerned if the thing will stand up to a windy day, rather than how waterproof it is.

hth

jeez I am such a nerd.

Agree about seam quality and wind resistance. Went for one with crossed poles for stability- makes it really quiet, too. But ours is a steel-framed beast. Crossed poles make for a 3season tent. Tunnels very wobbly, IME (but some will say this makes them able to 'give' in strong winds), and we've had the 'star' piece snap in gales with dome tents.

agree with slubber (except that dh and i keep a replacement tent fund as part of our camping kit, though ours has withstood all kinds of weather)

our khyam is 5000 and certainly brilliant but i wopuld have complete faith in an outwell 3000. our old gelert was iirc 3000 and never had a problem.

think it will be either the sun valley 8 or another ontario for us (if ours gets damaged or battered), although the sprayway gets a few glances from me....

not all domes have a star piece- the tahoma didnt.

our tunnel seems as if it is wobbly at the time bit stands up excellently- even in a tornado (as well as mums dome).

geodesics have great stability but imo are a pita to pitch

Never had trouble pitching tents myself- just put up like a tunnel really then some poles go across the other way. Pretty straightforward.

yes i know that- but the tahoma took significantly longer and in the rain why bother? the shape does make stability though, certainly.

also harder to do alone, and as i am oft chasing after the sn 50% of our brood or bf ds4, dh often does the whole bit alone, tunnels easier for that ime

Not had a Tahoma so couldn't say.

good tent in every other way mind, though prefer the ontario 8 because of space.

i am sre for the right family (ours being ubusual) it would be fine

tbh though i think most main brand tents are these days, as long as you dont buy bizarre unknown stuff from ebay

We have an outwell with a HH of 3000 and it has never leaked.

IME tunnels are easier to put up than domes, and that is the break point for me. I also prefer and 'In one' tent to put up, rather thna faffing in the rain with the fly sheet, over a rapidlt soggy inner!

But I do envy the room of some of the domes.

the UK army rates 850 HH as waterproof btw! But they are hard nuts who will wipe their arses on leaves if they have to, and I don't do that sort of camping!

I think you're right- though I would totally avoid Coleman- the last two we've had were not waterproof at all- 'Weathermasster' my arse. Vango, Outwell, Khyam would be my suggestion. We've had some success with Eurohikes, for supercheap tents.

You knwo, the putting up in the rain has never really bothered me- tents dry out so quickly. The only problem we've had is when you take it down in driving rain then have to put it up at the next stop in driving rain- we did give up once- but then it did appear as though the place was flooding!

mum has an excelleny eurohike, we've had gelert and khyam with great success

interesting about ythe coleman- our khya and a coleman were the only ones to survive the tornado last year!

but then some brands get a un of faults- Vango did back along, and the earlier sun valleys had ishoos as well

the rainproblem i think depends on a few things- good rainwear (!), but also if your tent pitches fly first or not, helped some poor souls pitch an inner first last year ion a downpour- ouch!

TBH, I think we had a tent from a bad production batch- they are made in China or somewhere now, and the shop had a ton of returns. It wasn't just the seams, the tent itself just leaked!Tried another but the same problem, so gave up. I do know my parents had some problems with faults on 3 Cabanons when we were kids, and the last one is still going 30 years on.

I've pitched inner first in the rain - doesn't take long to dry- but not ideal.

thanks for info..... both are tunnel style which am ok with though have found noiser in wind....am leaning toward outwell as have had leaks thru seams with Vango...interesting about coleman leaks as they have a good looking 3000 think may try aand find somewhere with Outwell out to investigate more.....

we have had the montana 4 for about 5 years now and it has withstood gales and flooding in Cornwall, along with the good old Scottish 2 week down pour, no leaks, a bit shaky at times but always remains standing. Well that may be the kiss of death now.In fact we are going to buy the extender thing for the front so that dd can play on her bike when its raining.

I think all tent brands have had their moments- I remember a whole load of complaints about finish quality on Outwells at one point, this seems to be over now. The tunnels withstand wind because they can give, which means nothing snaps, but I have seen them collapsed on sites. I just can't sleep when the tent is really flappy- that's why I go for the 3 season tents now. Have had 3 Vangos and they have been fine, incl our trusty old MK5! But then our Eurohike was fine, hast lasted years, and I know people have had problems with them, too.

Erm we don't have a HH on our polycotton - it just breaathes ahhhh.

and is totally waterproof - most tents are at least 3000 hh now though - our side canopy is 5000hh and it's a couple of years old.

Pinkyminky - have you ever had problems with the Gelert Cadiz?

We were looking for a small weekend tent that I could put up on my own and our local camping shop flogged us one for £20 yesterday. It was returned stock they wanted shot of, and they said the customer had complained it had leaked.

Never had a Gelert,I'm afraid. You can look at tent reviews on the ukcampsite website, they are usually pretty good.

Agree, Lucycat, cotton tents are fab. We've only had old school canvas, or the nylon. The canvas is also soo quiet. Our new Vango isn't stuffy at all, though.

DH would love a proper cotton tent ...but they all seem a bit heavy to carry and not sure I could put up myself....with current small tunnel i assemble then dh turns up and bangs the pins in as i usually bend them...so I need to be able to put it ..unless anyone knows any different

All the stuff about Coleman being crap is a load of hogwash. I have a Coleman Rigel X2, single skin, tunnel design, HH3000 and weighs only 1Kg - perfect as a backpacker, and has withstood some pretty bad storms with strong winds and torrential rain - never leaked a drop

I have met several other backpackers who told me they swear by this tent for being great shelter in wind and rain - so where your idea comes from that coleman leak like a tap im not sure - obviously other tents might not be so good, but I no for sure this one has been tested thoroughly in wind tunnels etc by coleman before realease

However dont buy this tent unless you are serious backpacker/hiker as its not for faint hearted. Its more like a bivvy - quite small only 68cm high at highest point - but it does the job - keeps you dry and out of wind, till you are ready to move on for next stage of walk