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Bullying

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Is this a toxic friend I should distance myself from?

10 replies

krisgibbs · 23/02/2024 11:25

Hi. Apologies in advance for this long post!

I have a friend (Mark) I have known for 30 years (since University) but we weren't friends back then. I always thought he was too much of a fiesty, hot-head who would come across as quite aggressive and argumentative and loved to take the piss out of his friends. He's always loved drinking beer excessively and as you can imagine, this type of behavior is amplified when he's had a lot of alcohol! Mark is also 5 foot, 6 inches tall, so he comes across as having small man syndrome.

About 15 years ago, our life situations were similar because a lot of our friends were married with kids but we were both single and childless. So we would meet up for drinks and set the world to rights. He seemed a lot calmer, wiser and emotionally intelligent. I was happy that he had finally become this mature person.

(For info, I'm very averse to conflict, laid-back but I can get anxiety. I like to get along with everyone and I like when everyone else around me gets along.)

Our reconnection resulted in us both going out for drinks almost every Saturday for years. Drinking excessively! It became the norm. He would drink at home during the week but I would not.

If I went on city break or vacation, he'd ask me if I been on any good drinking sessions whilst there. I remember saying that I'd had some drinks but I never got wasted as I didn't want to ruin the next day of my break. He didn't seem to understand that! To him, if you go away to another city/country, you sample all the local bars/pubs for the duration of your stay and get wasted every day/night.

There were many occasions where it would reach 1am and we'd had probably 8 pints of beer and I'd say I needed to go home. But he wouldn't accept it and would give me grief until I had more. Wanting to keep the peace, I would have one more and then try to leave again. It would sometimes end up with me having 2 more beers and finally staggering into a taxi. Basically, I could only leave when Mark was satisfied we'd had enough to drink. I would also be sick all over my bedroom/bathroom when I got home.

This was a semi-regular occurrence. But, as I was single. I could deal with the hangover and cleaning-up the mess on my own without it impacting an SO.

Eventually, I do end in a relationship, but the girl (Philippa) has a lot of issues that make her behavior towards me unacceptable at times. I'd help her as much as I could but it would end up with more conflict than I could cope with. I used to confide in Mark about a lot of this stuff and his opinion of Philippa was at rock bottom. He took my confiding as a green light to be really outspoken and rude about Philippa. I was fine with constructive opinions but not his brand of rudeness towards my girlfriend. One night we were in a bar along with 4-5 of Mark's friends, whom I only knew through him. At one point, the subject of my relationship came up and an intoxicated Mark shouted loudly (whilst pointing at me) "She's a c*nt!!!". I mean what can you do in that situation when surrounded by his friends. I just did a reluctant grin and wanted to move on. But I'll never forget that. It's not normal behavior. Regardless of my opinion on a friends' girlfriend, I wouldn't do that!

So after I broke up with Philippa, I vowed that I wouldn't share anything with Mark about future relationships.

About a year later, on a Friday, he invited me out for drinks with him and his oldest mate (who also has toxic masculinity traits). I had just started seeing a new girlfriend (Cathy) and had plans to see her the next day. I didn't want to be hungover so I was torn over whether to forego the invite or maybe just have a few drinks. I decided to go out, but I made it clear it was only for a 3 beers as I had plans. I get to the bar and when I am half-way through my 3rd beer I mention that it's my last. Then when I finish the beer I say I'm going to leave. They both gave me a world of grief for "being a pussy" and I had another beer with them. Once that was done and I tried to insist on leaving it became horrible. They both rounded on me and said how being hungover doesn't matter as "your girlfriend will have to get used to it anyway" and just went on and on at me. I was cornered and being bullied. I was in a bit of shock and was tongue-tied. I could also feel my body heating up with anger and I had to do something. So I literally just turned around and walked out the bar. I couldn't trust what might happen next after this verbal onslaught so chose to remove myself.

Once me and Cathy got established, we'd meet up with Mark and his new girlfriend (Ariana) and I could tell Mark didn't like Cathy. Every time we met up I could tell that he was evaluating everything Cathy said and was looking for signs that she might be bad for me. He's looking for signs of controlling behavior or anything that might affect my freedom negatively.

FYI - Cathy lived in another town so we could only meet up on weekends.

One time, when we all met up as a foursome, I had worked in Europe for a week. Mark said how I should have taken some personal leave in order to spend another week in Europe, but Cathy butted in and said that it would impact us seeing each other too much as we only see each other on weekends as it is. I knew this didn't go down well with Mark. He wouldn't have any understanding of Cathy's point. He would only see that as a restriction on my freedom! I said I agreed with Cathy, but despite that, Mark would have formed a bad opinion of Cathy there and then. In his opinion she wouldn't be right for me.

I was with Cathy for a year before we broke up. In that whole time I never shared any of my thoughts about the relationship. He would ask me some questions now and then but I would just give him vague answers. Nothing that he could use as ammunition to think badly of Cathy. But I knew he was fishing for info, albeit subtlety!

I was then single for 3 years and yes, this involved many many weekends of drinking with Mark! More situations arose where he didn't want me to go home and wanted us to have 'one more beer' etc. I could never be bothered to argue, so I'd always have one or two more in order to avoid any argument with him.

But then just before covid and lockdown struck, I meet my current girlfriend of 4 years (Linda). We ended up living together before she'd even met any of my friends, because of covid. She was well aware that Mark is an important friend to me and that his girlfriend Ariana is a great person, so Linda was keen to get to know them and put in the effort. This was obviously nice for me. Linda messaged Ariana and arranged for them both to come to our house, where we would cook dinner for them and provide drinks etc. We also went to their apartment for the same and also spent another night in a bar with them. All was good! I thought maybe Mark actually approves of Linda!

But, as I said previously, Mark is always looking for the negative. Nowadays, my life is very busy and as I'm also a lot older I'm not going out and drinking all day with Mark like we used to. Knowing Mark as I do - I suspect he blames Linda for this in some way, as he probably thinks I'm a weak person who is easily bullied by girlfriends etc and that I'm being controlled and restricted from 'fun' things -like drinking!

More background info - even though I haven't been out drinking with Mark that much recently, I have been on some heavy nights out with other friends and ended up being sick in the Uber on the journey home. Or I've been sick all over the bathroom. Or I've been sick on myself and been unable to open the door and had to wake Linda up at 2am to let me in. It's embarrassing and fills me with great shame. Linda gives me a piece of her mind but then let's it go. But, this type of thing has now put her on edge every time I go out.

Also.... I've been on Citalopram for anxiety since 2017 and after googling it, it turns out that mixing this medication with alcohol can greatly increase the chances of being sick. So all these years where I've been sick after a night out (and in the back of Ubers) could actually relate to this.

Fast forwarding - it was my birthday recently and Linda booked a table at a restaurant for us, whilst also inviting Mark & Ariana, plus my brother Adrian (whom I am very close with).

I thought it was great that Linda did that for me as she continues to integrate herself with my friends etc. Linda also paid for my meal as a birthday treat. We went to a bar after dinner - and due to my habit of being sick in the back of taxis and becoming excessively drunk, I think Linda was a bit on edge about how that part of the night would go.

The dynamic was different as it wasn't two couples. As my brother Adrian was there, it became three guys talking and two girls talking separately. So myself, Mark and Adrian were huddled talking guy stuff and drinking quickly and heavily.

Just to bring you up to date on the number of drinks we'd had (guys) - we had one beer each and shared two bottles of wine in the restaurant, followed by six more beers in the bar. So that's seven beers and 3 large glasses of wine. I was very drunk by 12:30am. Linda recognized that us guys were getting louder and she felt it was probably time that me and her leave - so as to avoid the potential of me being sick in the Uber or at home. She mentioned leaving to me and she also looked tired, so I was fine with it. I had beer at home if I wanted more anyway.

But no, Mark had to step in! This was unacceptable to him. He would be the 'hero' who 'called out' my girlfriend for 'spoiling' my birthday fun (no doubt he considered this a controlling act by Linda). Mark felt we should have 'one more beer' there and even move onto another bar! Linda did not! So this turned into a conflict between Mark and Linda. Mark is highly intoxicated, whereas Linda is not. I was quite drunk so only remember parts of this and from what Linda has told me.

Apparently Mark said "I've known him longer than you". Which of course, is ridiculous. I have known Mark longer that Ariana has known him, but that doesn't give mean I know better than her!

None of my other friends would think it’s acceptable to speak to a friends’ girlfriend like he did. It was none of his business. I’d never step into a conversation he was having with Ariana and cause a fuss like he did.

He dressed it up like he’d called Linda out on something, like some kind of hero who’s standing up for his friend against the tyranny of his girlfriend. Me and Linda were fine in that moment. I did give Lucy some grief at the time because I was drunk and I’m conditioned to find the path of least resistance and least conflict. In the case of Mark - it’s always to have ‘one more beer! I was happy either way though, I just didn’t want conflict.

It’s a total insult too, like he thinks I need him to help me out. I don’t! The irony is, he’s ‘helping’ because he thinks I’m a push over in my relationships but it’s for the same reason he thinks he can get away with that disrespectful behavior.

I feel like I've effectively been bullied by Mark for years to stay out and drink more. He’s always the common denominator when it comes to drama on nights out. None of my other friends would ever behave like that.

The worst part is, Mark doesn’t ever do that kind of thing with his other mates, it’s only with me. He doubled down his opinion on Sunday morning with his text messages to me - which came across as justifying his point of view and actions. He said such things as “she needs to chill, big time”.

But I would argue he needs to chill out. If someone says they’re going home, they’re going home. He said “it’s not like you’re out all the time, you could have got a hotel or something”. Again, this is an utterly ridiculous comment. I’m not getting a hotel whilst I'm super drunk and paying £150 for a room for the sake of a couple more beers, whilst also telling Linda to go home - she who organized the meal/night out and also paid for my meal. What an awful thing to say.

We (myself and Linda) even explained to him that my medication makes me really susceptible to being sick in taxis, but it went in one ear and out the other. He loves to demonize whoever I’m with, despite the fact this was Linda looking out for me. He’s not the one who deals with the fall-out and the mess when I’ve got into those states. He’s only thinking of himself, but under the guise or being a friend. IMO he’s a cavemen who’s all about the ‘bro’s before hoes’ etc.

I suspect Ariana has given up on trying to tame him as she goes along with it all the time now. She makes no attempt to police him and just laughs it off.

Me and Linda are happy and I'm hopeful we'll go the distance. But now Mark has driven a wedge between the two couples. As it stands, he will maintain he was in the right and that his behavior was acceptable. I have been diplomatic in my replies to him - I have mainly defended Linda, without blaming him.

I’ve explained to Linda that it's not even personal to her - whoever I go out with, Mark will be watching like a hawk, ready to swoop on anything he feels is an injustice or a restriction on my male freedoms. So with that in mind, is there any point being friends with him? If me and Linda were to break up and I got with a new partner, the cycle would just start over again with Mark. It's like he doesn't want me to be in a good relationship and looks for an opportunity to sabotage it.

As much as I've known Mark for 30 years and have only been with Linda for 4 years, I have to protect Linda from his ways and defend her. She could be the one I'm with forever so I feel like I have to make a stand. Linda hasn't done anything wrong and Mark just becomes really toxic when I'm in a relationship. It's been nearly a week since my birthday incident and I'm still absolutely fuming!

Thanks for reading this long post! Your thoughts would be most welcome!

Kris

OP posts:
Bicyclecycle · 23/02/2024 11:29

Sorry I gave up half way through, it was too long. Do what makes you happy. Life is too short for friends that make you miserable.

Lifestooshort71 · 23/02/2024 11:30

Just reads like a couple of blokes who regularly get wasted but only skim read it so perhaps I'm wrong. Pity any girl involved with either of you if that's the case.

Mabelface · 23/02/2024 11:32

Mark is an arsehole, and you need to learn how to say no. This is on you as it's you making these choices. He's not your boss and you don't have to do what he says. Oh, and saying no includes not drinking to the degree that you're sick. That's alcohol, not citalopram causing it.

MariaLuna · 23/02/2024 11:39

He's looking for signs of controlling behavior or anything that might affect my freedom negatively.

Yea, he wants to control your time to keep hanging out and accept abuse from him and his. Why would you even give him the time of day?!

I didn't get further than that quoted sentence, far too long posts.

To him, if you go away to another city/country, you sample all the local bars/pubs for the duration of you stay and get wasted every day/night.

He sounds like a total bore and a full-blown alcoholic.

Shortpoet · 23/02/2024 11:56

Mark sounds utterly tedious, but your problem is that you can’t stand up for yourself.

Other than antidepressants, what work are you doing to help with anxiety and fear of conflict? The antidepressants are there to help give you some relief from the anxiety, but you still have to do the work to work out what is triggering it and find new ways of responding. There will always be people we need to be assertive with, not just Mark but life in general.

It’s obvious that Mark is an alcoholic, but you should look at whether that applies to you too. You’re drinking till you throw up. Don’t use the medication as an excuse. You know it makes you sick but you’re drinking lots on a night out anyway, even without pressure from Mark.

Kittensat36 · 23/02/2024 11:56

Yes it's very long, but I have a feeling you needed to get that off your chest.

I think Mark is probably pretty unhappy with himself for whatever reason and he takes it out on you because you're the only one who lets him get away with that shit. Met plenty like him in my time.

So what does he bring to the table exactly? Even if he is paying for every round, he's not worth it.

They say that misery loves company. He's miserable and doesn't want to be alone as he flushes his life down the toilet. He's decided you will be the one to join him on that journey.

Step back and look - what do you get from him and what do you get from Linda? Linda seems the much better deal. And without him, you won't have the baggage of throwing up on yourself, gale force hangovers and all that.

Weren't you happier in lockdown when you didn't have to see this waste of DNA? Create your own lockdown. Lock Mark out.

Shortpoet · 23/02/2024 12:01

Just reread, you are in medication that reacts badly with alcohol and you had 7 beers and three large glasses of wine.

You were ok leaving the venue because “I had beer at home if I wanted more anyway.”
If this is real, you have an alcohol problem.

I think you keep Mark around as a comparison to say, I’m not as bad as him, so you can deny how bad your own problem is.

NancyPickford · 23/02/2024 13:31

If you've known him for 30 years since university, you must be around 50? It does seem like a very immature way to be still behaving at that stage in your lives.

Trisolaris · 23/02/2024 13:39

Sounds like one of my husbands friends when we got together. Didn’t know me at all but decided that I was controlling because my husband didn’t want to go out binge drinking any more and much preferred spending his Saturday nights with me.

They aren’t in contact any more.

SBHon · 23/02/2024 13:39

You sound like you would be infinitely happier if you stood up for yourself:
• Don’t want your another beer? Then don’t drink one!
• Don’t want Mark to talk shit about you or your girlfriend? Either say something or walk away.

It also sounds like Mark has a problem with alcohol… and sorry but possibly you do too.

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