Ethnic Isolation

[bestmumever123]

I'm mum to a very gorgeous 8 year old. We are not white british and we are brown skinned and Muslim but not as such practicing. Divorced I've come to live in a many white british area because it was close to my work.

We have lived here since my DS was in reception and now he is in year three. From day one of living here I have felt unwelcome. I have done a lot to make sure my son has some social life. The usual way is that I always invite children over at my house, I say hello to people when I see them, chat briefly whenever I can. But my son does not get invited back, if I don't say hello no one will say hello to me, infact people make it a point to pass by me and say hello to anyone standing alongside. Recently during parent teacher meeting the teacher told me that my son wasn't very confident in class as he does not really have much social contact with children outside of school.

I then started again to invite more new children over to my house and as usual when it came to inviting my son to their houses, there was always an excuse. This is a recent episode and it is bothering me a lot hence im awake at 1am in the morning writing this post. My son wanted to invite this boy, lets call him -Heath over to our house because he says he likes him and they are starting to be friends.
When I saw heaths mum after school with heath I asked them if they'd like to come over for tea, heath's reaction was 'yay!' but his mum went well I don't know heath is pretty busy so I said take my number and let me know when he is available or i'll text you when I am available and we'll arrange a play date.
she texted me her number, after two days I texted her my dates, she replied that she will reply within a week. A week went past no reply so when I saw her at school I asked her and she said ok first day of summer holiday and I said 10 am in the morning is ok and she said yes great.
Now after this she has had second thoughts and said she'd like to meet in the park rather than my house, I asked why and the answer was because she did not want to bring all her kids to my house as they will all play in the park, it felt like an excuse so I said why after play you can have tea at mine, he reply as expected was aggressive - she said they did not meet anyone out of school and there was no need for food. That was the only time she had on that day as her step daughter has a birthday.

Now it is clear that she does not want to come to my house but I can't leave it alone. Whatever she has said is a lie. Her son does have friends he goes to and so does she. I'm sick and tired but most of all, how do I continue this to happen to my son, how do I let his tiny spirit being crushed time and again my reckless people. I feel so upset. Please if you have been though anything like this, if you have a solution other than to ignore it, let me know. I' at the brink of confronting this woman and having a shouting match.

Interestingly I have had this situation in reverse. I lived in an area where dd was the only white child in her class and she was consistently excluded from parties and play dates. In fact it was so bad a Hindu family in a class above her class noticed and made a huge thing of inviting dd over.
I found it very sad as I was more than happy for dd to respect any rules or cultural differences they observed and I truly hope it was for reasons other than ethnicity.

Anyway having said that I later following divorce lived in an entirely white British area due to work and discovered parents were just as bad at offloading their children on you but not returning the favour or not allowing their kids over to yours because they don't want to have the hassle of having to return the favour in the future where as meeting somewhere neutral like the park or softplay doesn't require that.

Hi bestmum,

Didn't want to read and run. I'm also British Asian and my dd mixes with mostly white English girls at school (yr 1). Fortunately the parents are all lovely and there's always to-ing and fro-ing with the girls!

I would suggest to just let things be with this particular child/parent at the moment. Please don't have a shouting match! It's definitely not the way to make friends !

Have you tried speaking to the teacher and explaining to her how you feel, what you've written in your post? The teacher will know who your son plays with during the day and also which personalities he gets along with the most (and she'll also most likely know which parents are nice too!).

Good luck and let us know how you get on x

Also, I don't think your post should be in bullying, and I don't think you or your ds are being bullied by anyone judging from your op. Sometimes it just takes a little more time.

hi househunting

I could not find any topic to post under as this is my very first post but to be honest think I need support right now than criticism over where my post should or shouldn't have been. Thanks for your reply.

Ok. And thanks for completely disregarding my initial post offering sympathy, support and suggestions.

You do sound like rather hard work, to be honest.

hi supervet

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you mean with somewhere neutral. I'm at a point right now where I have taken in and stayed quite for as long as I could. Now I'm quite ready to express myself as I want to. Who gives anyone the right to treat you like dirt and get away with it. My and my DS's well being is at risk. Its not alright, its not ok, we are being but in a corner by no fault of ours and I need to put an end to it. I don't like the authoritative and controlling tone the woman has with me as if she owns me. I'm opening my home and my heart out for someone, if you don't want to come then say' NO I DONT WANT TO COME OR HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU' and tell me why ' she is a racist or bigot using the park as a means to save grace.

hi househunting

I haven't disregarded your suggestion of speaking to the teacher and I've thanked you for it so please don't make this about you.

It might not be that she's racist or a bigot.

She might not be a nice person or there might be other reasons behind it.

I will be honest since I got divorced we ended up in a tiny flat. It is clean and tidy but it's no where near as nice or posh as the places most of dds friends live which make me worried they will call her names. There is also no room to play. So we have tended to meet out at the cinema, park, soft play, bowling etc (I pay) Where as when dd goes to there's she goes mostly to their houses. I'm sure some of them have thought it strange.

There are only two children who come to the house and I've known their parents and children a long time so they know the situation at home.

She might be horrible or she might have a reason I don't know.

You said the other kids come over. Are you happy for them to come over even if they don't return the favour?

I've come to terms with the fact that they will not ask my DS to their house and I don't really have a choice. I try to keep the influx going even if there is no outflux. My house is a flat but the park is near by and there is plenty to do indoors as well. The parents of these children that come to my house are happy to talk to me when no one is around but as soon as we are in public they pretend that they don't know me. I'm a health professional and deal with lots of people everyday in my job, all polite and lovely both staff and patients but soon as I get in my area, its like hatred-street. My son must be suffering if I can feel it im sure he can too ... and this kills me inside.

I have four children that are regular at my house, the other day I saw one of their mums taking another child to their home for tea again while we sit and wonder why not my DS.

I can't teach my son that its ok to accept this kind of behaviour by staying quiet. He is not less than anyone else.

God knows if she is a racist, bigot or just a looney!

Have you ever asked the other parents if ds can come to theirs? Maybe they are worried you are practising muslim and don't know what is ok when looking after your child.

Could you ask the teacher for a really honest assessment of why she thinks this situation has occurred?

Has your son ever been invited to play at another child's house?

I wonder in regards to the other children who do come if they are just not that close to your ds. By that I mean you are good enough to come round and play and have treats with but not close enough that when they are asking little Johnny who they want someone over they aren't picking him.

Not all parents will be as hung up as I was on reciprocating play date for play date.

fwiw my dd has just gone five years without a play date other than a friend of mines child and no party invitation at all.

One girl who was coming over made it clear at one point she was coming for the treats!
Dd is very quiet and struggles socially. She was liked in juniors but not enough to be chosen to spend any long periods of time with.

The whole class can't be racist but some of the cliques in the playground can be awful.

Is it possible that the issue is your son, not you or your house?

Have you ever had any indication from anyone that he might be er….difficult?

Do pp think that racism is not a real thing in certain areas?

Op, I don't know what the answer is but I know I'd feel heartbroken. I'd definitely consider moving to a more diverse area to be honest, I worry about my DS growing up in such a white area (I'm white) when he becomes a teenager especially.

That said there could be another reason, is your DS 'spirited' or any of those other euphemisms for naughty? Do you live in a scary looking high rise? have a massive dog?

Hi Best mum. I'm white English living in a mostly black area. I work in a mostly Muslim area. I don't have anything specific to say, I have just come on to say I am so sorry you are feeling like this, it sounds horrible.

Since working in a Muslim area, and getting to know some of the Muslims very well, and becoming good friends, I have heard and seen how some of them are treated. It has been a real eye opener to me. I have been horrified, furious, and very very saddened about what happens to my lovely friends.

I am also sometimes a bit nervous, and have been on the receiving end of some aggression from some Muslims too.

I think there is a lot of racism, far more than I would have thought, and possibly it is growing, although I don't know if that is my perception or reality.

Not every incident is racist though. You just can't tell, that is the problem. Half of the problems you are having might be down to racism, more than half, less then half, most of it, almost none of it......

I am being completely honest about my own experience, in the hope that it helps you, so please don't have a go at me.

My worries about going into the home of even my best Muslim friend, or looking after her children, are along these line.

What language is spoken? Will the child say things I don't understand? What food is eaten, can I offer the child an ice cream? or can we duck into Mcdonalds for a snack? What do the children call their parents? Do I say "your mummy?" or is this wrong? What might I do that is "wrong" that I haven't even considered? What clothes are offensive? should I wear tights? What will the rest of the family think? Will her husband disapprove of our friendship? Can I even ask these things, or would it be rude?

I think meeting in a neutral place might give me a chance to get some of these questions answered.

Meeting in a neutral place and spending time together does give thee other woman a chance to get to know you. It might just be that she doesn't let her child go with anyone she doesn't know? or she might be basing her reaction on her personal chemistry with you, or on racism, and if it is either of those I am sorry, both are hurtful, and almost impossible to tell apart.

Living in a black area, we have had some issues, but on nothing like the scale that you are having.

Is he the only child of ethnic origin in the class?If the answer is no,are the other 'non-white' (don't know how best to term that) being invited back to others houses?

I really think househuntings advice to ask the teacher is the way forward here,she will have a clear picture of what is going on. (Btw,you were very dismissive of househuntings' post,which was in no way unsupportive.If you're reacting like that to people in real life,then it's quite possible that people are wary of being around you,not because of race but because of rudeness.Just a point you might want to bear in mind)

My sympathies OP, that sounds really tough and I'm sure it's getting you down. I'm surprised that the teacher would attribute problems to lack of contact out of school though - surely most FT working families can't do the afterschool play date thing either, so it's hardly unique.

This woman, whatever her reasons, does not want to invite you over or step inside your house, and knowing whether she's racist, a cow or allergic to your pet cat won't change that. Unfortunately you do have to keep plugging away with other parents. If an employer was discriminating against you on grounds of race you could sue. If the children at school were being discriminatory then the teacher could intervene in various ways. But the law doesn't cover making adults be friends with each other no matter how wrong their reasons.

In a non-diverse community they could all be very baffled by the concept of Islam and what's involved in having a Muslim child to visit. Are they aware that you're not practising?

Every mum im think that their son is the best but DS is definitely the most polite boy in the class. He can give up his turn or place just to be kind and helpful and I have taught him that. Pleases and thank yous and all that. That is why I feel so horrible when I see his little heart break by someones lack of interest. These boys that come to my house play with him every day and are in his main group of friends, so the chance that they might not be good friends is none. Another mum who's refused the favour made a meal out of it, on the face of it she said that yeah this date is good for DS to come over but then changed it last minute twice, infact the second time she didn't bother to tell me and only the night before I texted to make sure she was picking him from school and he reply was oh no I'm looking after the twins etc. Its pathetic.
I could ask them too, but do I want my DS to go in an environment where he is not welcome? what if they treat him badly and that scars him for life.

My DS is at the top of his class- this from his teacher and his behaviour with the kids is always lovely also from the class teacher.

How can someone who has a child of the same age put another child through this hell? we don't have a dog, we've always been polite with everyone and always take care of anyone's dietary needs and ask for any special requirements if required whenever they come over to ours.

No useful advice but I'm sorry you're going through this, I would raise it with the teacher

I know it's upsetting OP. But don't overdo it. Your DS has friends who are happy to play with him at school and who are happy to come over to play at his house. That's more than many many kids have so "putting him through this hell" is a massive overreaction. Even if the other mums are being horrible to you you need to downplay it to your DS. "Yes it's a pity that X's mum can't have you over - I'm not sure why that is. But we can meet them in the park and you always have fun when he comes to visit"

What's your social life like outside school? Yours and your son's?

Clearly you're not having an easy time with school friends but, even if you make use of before and after school clubs, he's not spending all his time there and - for now - it might be helpful to concentrate on extra curricular activities where he meets different groups of children.

Hard as it is you will have to be more proactive in broadening his horizons - rather than boiling everything down to one unfriendly woman. She doesn't matter, your son having fun is what matters.

Swimming, scouts, a theatre group, children's art group at a gallery in the nearest city - any of these or a hundred other things would take him (and you) out of the hostile school bubble. (If you're already doing all this I'll have to think of something else!)

Don't give up - do not waste time getting angry.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers Sadly I really do agree racism is rife in certain areas. I as a white English woman have suffered racism in areas where I have been the minority.

I am not saying the woman in the op is not racist. It just seems to be a bigger issue in terms of lots of children with the op and surely they ALL cannot be racist surely especially if they allowed their children to come over to the house.

I would definitely have a chat with the teacher.

I wonder how much of it is the same old situation we see on threads on here about playgrounds day after day, some schools are plain unfriendly and have their little 'groups' . How many tales on here do we see of one person running the playground (usually the head of the pta on Mumsnet!)

Does your son see any of his classmates out of school at swim class/ beaver scouts/ dance class? By year 3 my lad was only going to play at home with his best mate, others he sees at the park or at sports. A home play date is unusual, we don't often have his friends here either.

Some very wise words ladies, thank you for your time. I've just come back from work and read your comments. Even if you have just offered sympathy, it means so much to me...Thank you :)

My DS does clubs three out of five days and I'm enrolling him in boy scouting soon too. It seems like I'm over-reacting because I'm fed up of this kind of behaviour. Its not just this, some local shops owned by locals have peculiar way of ignoring me and serving everyone other than me until I speak out. I've been dealing with this behaviour for the last almost five years thinking it will get better with time, being resilient and saying hello hi to everyone, being kind and complimenting them wherever I can. Also spent chuck loads of money to buy presents for other mums on their birthday or for their kids. I wish it was just school gate politics etc but I'm baffled by this invisible wall that I cannot penetrate.

I wish this child's mum had just told me that she doesn't want to come to my house out right. She gave me excuse after excuse and I kept saying that's not a problem until she said she doesn't meet people out of school as they are so busy with clubs- this when the meeting is in summer holidays?! Ive reached a point that I don't know if I should still meet the woman in the park or just say I can't. Its dragged out and I feel this hostility from her. I've always said hello to her at school gates, smiled at her, asked how she was. Its never' I'm well and how are you? its always 'yeah good thanks'.

I cannot downplay the other parents attitude to my DS as this is not going to go away. This is real and he needs to know the truth and how to deal with it. I want to do the right thing and not teach him to put up with demeaning behaviour.

Are you in a village op? I've experienced this kind of behaviour as have friends and family in areas where outsiders are not accepted.

My aunt lived in her area from 20 - late 60s and was never accepted. My friend is having the same issue in her village now.

I'm struggling that everyone in school and in shops are ALL racist and I've lived in areas with 100% white British, 99% Asian Muslim and a village with one family who weren't white British.