Nightweaning - can you reassure me?

[otchayaniye]

My daughter has been fed to sleep and for every resettle and a long on/off early morning session for 20 months. About a month or so back I was getting sick to the back teeth of this because she wasn't just waking once or twice, but 5-6 times and sometimes taking a long tie to fall asleep.

Plus, although I work three days a week and my husband looks after her, she would pounce on me the minute I walked in the door and on the days I didn't work would demand frequent feeding. So I cut that down too, without too much hassle actually.

But the nightweaning, well, it seems one step forward, two back. I'd honestly thought it would have got easier and that she'd have learned to resettle herself without too much crying and hoo hah. Thing is, she does sometimes, it's a wake, a screech, a chunter and throwing herself around the bed and falling asleep. Other times its a full on cry (to be honest more angry and pissed off than desolate, as I'm there next to her) but it can really go one, and christ, it makes me angry as the days I work I have to get up at 5.30am. In this state she doesn't want to be comforted and if I sing to her she tells me "I don't want it, shut up (yeah)".

Anyway, I feel confused, upset and not sure if this whole thing is confusing to her. But at the same time I don't want to demand feed a near-two year old (respect, though, if you do), I haven't had a period yet, and want to TTC, I need more sleep than chunks of 2 hours now I work and I want to regain my sex life (I know bfeeding doesn't have to impact it, but it does me). And it's hurting. And I don't like doing it much anymore. Plus I know she can do it, because she has, so I want to press my advantage. I don't mind being woken up with a chunter and a screech if I know she'll resettle, but I can't handle any more longer tantrums (I used that word guardedly but it characterises her pissed-offness, it's not the cries of an abandoned baby)

Las night the third waking produced a full on tantrum/upset (poor neighbour in the flat opposite, I told her not to 'wake the poor man up' and she keeps repeating it now) and I just lost my cool and feel out of control and really torn. I ended up feeding her to sleep.

A true dilemma then. Sorry this is so long (she's tucking into breakfast) but set this all out as I know noone who has fed this long, certainly on demand.

Her behaviour in the day is wonderful and hasn't changed. She's very, very chatty, confident and I like to think my 24-hour parenting has helped her blossom (probably wishful thinking, eh!). In some ways my husband (he cares for her three days a week) has an easier relationship. There's just no 'boobie' getting in the way. And he's never put her to bed (attempts have failed and I've taken over to get an easy life)

Sometimes I think I should just knock it on the head (secretly would like to). Sometimes I think my husband should take her to his parents overnight and just break the cycle.

What would you do?

I am not as far ahead as you so have no actual experience in night weaning (my LO is only 8mo) but I just wanted to say kudos you have obviously done fabulously to get to 20mo on demand.

Thanks jemjabella. Sometimes I do think what I've done is good, but other times I think I've chosen the easy-at-the-time route.

Seriously though, I don't for a minute think you 'have to teach them to learn how to sleep' because they will get it eventually. It's just for our family (and hopefully future addition) I need to think of the big picture of us all and what's good for us. And that's transitioning from the baby bubble.

In general I'm finding the transition from very baby-led to a mix of that and parent-led quite hard. I don't call myself an attachment parenter, but essentially I do the same things, carrying everywhere, sleeping in the same bed, ebf and generally very child led.

In a way, stripping out the emotive language, I have 'made a rod' and have encouraged the attachment. I wouldn't have it any other way but need to break this constant feeding cycle.

Good luck to you jemjabella. If it's any encouragement, I wouldn't avoid this with a second child, but bloody hell, 24 hour mothering is bloody hard.

Have you ever been on naturalmamas.co.uk? You sound like you'd fit in really well there with your parenting principles & I know there's a lot of very experienced breastfeeders there.

Hope it's ok to link drop here

Well, actually although I've parented this way I'm in other ways not your typical crunchy person (I like fancy clothes, sportsbikes, vaccination etc) so I've always avoided places like that.

But I'll drop in. I know this is common with ebfers and I know not everyone who ebfs does it on demand.

Thanks

hi there - you sound like me except my DS is a couple of months younger than yours?

we end up co-sleeping after DS's first waking but have recently stopped Bfing him at night for reasons similar to yours...

I have to say that DS accepted my not BFing him at night amazingly well... there were tantrums for the 1st week or so (definitely tantrums... angry crying and saying 'NO MUMMY!' if i tried to rub or pat him...) but now comes into our bed and might whinge for a second but usually settles himself down next to me with minimal fuss now (apart from last night but hoping that was just a hiccup). I expected it to take weeks for him to give it up! He now sleeps ALL NIGHT sometimes [amazing!] but at the most wakes once? (believe me this feels amazing after 1.5 years of being woken several times a night)

basically I guess I?m just saying you probably need to stick it out - your DD sounds a lot more resistant to giving up the BF than my DS but she WILL eventually accept it... but you have to be consistent or she'll be even more confused... I know this is much easier said than done when they?re crying but it DOES work eventually, especially as she is old enough to understand what you?re saying when you say ?boobies are asleep? or whatever it is you say in your house! I usually ask him if he wants some water and have his cup ready by the bed just in case he is thirsty? sometimes he has a drink (usually just looks at me with disgust for even suggesting replacing boob with cup) but at least you can rule that out if you offer it?

I am all for child led parenting and i have always wanted DS to give up BFing by himself but i personally feel now that I need to nudge him in that direction as like you, I want my sex drive back, I am not enjoying BFing in that same way (too much clawing, pulling, biting involved now!) and would like to start ovulating again at some point?

I?m not sure this is any help but I just wanted to share the fact that I?m in a similar situation and Ds is mainly accepting the lack of night feeds now, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Now? how to drop the bedtime and morning feeds?
any ideas???

NMs is not that crunchy (some vaxx; I know we have a few biking ladies; not sure about fancy clothes though, think that might be a banning offence )

I'll shut up and let you get back on topic now

hi - I have been there.It's as you say - the transistions are the hardest to deal with. you have to recognize the opportunity, act on it and stay consistent... hard deal, esp. with a 5.30 start! It sounds as if you have two options. One is to continue with the night weaning. You seem reasonably confident that she can manage this, and that it is the right time, and that it will be for the best in the medium/long term. Your other option, to go back to demand feeding, might give you short term relief but you have laid out clearly why you began the process and I suspect you'd be questionng yourself further if you did.

Nobody except your DD truly knows how far through this tough bit you two really are. But if you can manage to send her a clear message, coupled with plenty of reassurance and the confidence you obviously do feel (even if not in the dead of night) then I'm sure you'll see things settle down sooner rather than later.

By the way you could try a visual signal... like, um, feeding only when in special chair/ when not in nightclothes/ something to clarify, if you are worried about confusion? I do agree that mixed messages can be the most destructive thing of all, and a switch of focus from you saying No, to an inanimate object, could help you as well as her...

good luck, and good heart!

('crunchy' - love it)

Your dd sounds sooo like my ds2. There was no way he ever intended going back to sleep without a feed if I was in the room. In the end I got ill and dh took over for 3 nights. The first ds2 managed to scream for 7 hours, with one small break - he fell asleep after 3.5 hrs, but dh who was with him moved a muscle and he started again! It was very upsetting, but I had to remind myself that a) he wouldn't starve and b) he had his daddy with him for comfort. In some ways it was truly awe-inspiring.

Night 2 dh introduced the phrase "Not now, it's dark outside, go to sleep" when he woke in the night. 20 minutes of angry screaming was followed by silence.

Third night dh appeared and ds2 sighed and rolled over.

We continued to feed for another 12 months or so until ds2 was 3.5, but only in the daytime.

HTH and best of luck

I night-weaned DD (19 mo when we started) on the third attempt. The first two times I think she just wasn't ready. It has taken a while, she still wakes up in the night but now I just tell her "booby's asleep", perhaps offer her some water (which she usually turns down) and we have a cuddle and she goes off again. It took a week or so before she stopped having a bit of a rage but now I think she is used to the idea. I just set times when I wouldn't feed her and stuck to them. Obviously she can't tell the time but it helps to have a boundary I think. Some nights are still worse than others but hang in there!

There's another thread on this here that might give you some reassurance and ideas. Good luck!

Thanks folks, I really, REALLY appreciate.

I suppose as I work part-time I have residual guilt (yeah, I know) and feel demand feeding helps. But it doesn't help our family as a whole now.

Hi otchayaniye I was on the other thread and totally hear you. My ds is 20m too and I am tryyyyying to night wean but...it can be tough.

I guess I take a similar parenting approach to you and tried a soft sort of night weaning approach (dr jay, as per thread). I didn't have very much success and sort of lost the plot and tried controlled crying (what was I thinking argh). It was an out and out disaster. DS became so sad during the day, eventually lost his voice, didn't enjoy reading stories (when he loved them before), would cry if we said things like 'teddy is sleeping', cried at a photo of himself sleeping and burst into tears at the sight of Iggle Piggle going to sleep. In the space of a week... it was just horrendous and I feel dreadful for having put him through it. I just thought if we persisted just one more night it'd start to work. And I though if we didn't persevere all the past crying would be in vain, IYSWIM?

Anyway, the point of my sorry tale is just to say no matter how angry you feel in the dead of night and how utterly fed up you feel (and trust me I do know) don't go against your insticts like I did, I really regret it.

And I will be watching this thread with interest to get ideas!

god i'm more heartless than you - i night weaned all dc at around a year old. funnily enough dc3 was about 10 months. my method is to move into the spare room and just put dh in with them. have some dh, that's what i say. took a few weeks but they get there in the end, just don't start feeling sorry for them and relent.

really get what you are saying about it seemed the easiest option at the time. retrospect is a beautiful thing. the problem i found was being knackered was affecting our days so much it just wasn't worth it. it's just habit. tell yourself you're doing it so you can enjoy her more during the day.

really good luck.

Thanks for your advice. I stuck with it, and it's getting easier and today I got my period. I missed the feeling (not)

Thanks again.