Having confidence in your ability to bf.

[jaggythistle]

Why are things like growth spurts and cluster feeding not more commonly heard about? I meet so many people who are really stressed and believe that either they don't have enough milk, or that their milk is not enough/good enough.

From what I have read here it is not common at all for this to be the case (and milk quality does not really vary) if you are just bf on demand, so I am wondering why the myths are always more readily believed.

I try my best when contributing to discussions at bf group for example to help people feel more confident, but I don't think they believe me! Some have added in formula or weaned early when they didn't want to because of their baby's feeding patterns for example.

I know that not everyone will have no problems and I hope this topic doesn't annoy anyone, but it seems to me that it would help people who are worrying to know that they can do it, when others are putting doubt in their minds.

After getting support here, I have just fed DS whenever he needed it and not worried about what he 'should' do, It has made life a lot easier than counting hours and numbers of feeds and worrying - as long as he was bright and producing plenty nappies and growing, I just went with it. (He is 9mo now)

Hope this made sense, I am not sure how the message can be got across to help people have confidence in themselves and their body.

V interesting thread jaggy, thanks.

I have major wobbles with my confidence on my ability to bf. I was v keen to make it work with ds1 and naively assumed that it would be easy, what with it being nature's way and all. I was totally unprepared for the reality of 'constant' sucking, slow weight gain, grizzly baby, sleep deprivation, and came to believe that I was not meeting my baby's needs. I succumbed to giving him 1 formula top-up in the evening mainly to try and get a bit more sleep in order to 'boost my supply'... He of course refused the breast from that point on and so was weaned onto formula at 4mo much to my regret, as I'd been hoping to continue to a year. I've felt guilty about it ever since, as it's constantly rammed down your throat that breast is best, and I felt i'd failed him. He's now a happy, bright, healthy 4 year old- a tiny bit on the chunky side, which obv with my tendency for self-flagellation I can't help wondering is down to the formula!

4+ years later, and ds2 is nearly 4 weeks old. On the interim I've done a lot of reading on mn and found out that inadequate supply is actually v uncommon etc. I set out with great determination and optimism, bit have to admit I'm finding it really bloody difficult again. He was a little slow to regain birthweight and likes to snooze on the boob, just like his older bro did. We tend to have marathon feeding sessions, at the end of which I'm not convinced he's satisfied. I went to a local bf support group last week, where a great peer support worker suggested switch feeding to keep him awake on the job. This has definitely helped and since then he's started doing the 2 poos a day which my midwife thinks are necessary. I haven't succumbed to formula yet and I really really want to make exclusive bf work this time, but it's still bloody hard work. I'm enjoying ds2 enormously, but not the feeding yet- still doubt my supply despite all that I've read, and when (like last night) he feeds all night and I'm utterly exhausted, I feel like packing it all in. It will get easier at some point, right?

Huge moan- sorry! But feel better for getting it odd my chest

off

Yes, it will

Yes, Woofie, it does get better. Around 4-6 weeks is a growth spurt for many babies. The early days are such hard work but after you've been going a while it is so much easier.

OP, I agree that it's a shame there isn't more useful info / advice for many people in real life. None of us in my antenatal group knew about cluster feeding, or that growth spurts often made babies fussy feeders. I went to our local bf cafe when DS was around 6 weeks because I was in despair as he had gone from always having 20 mins on each breast to fussing and often refusing the second breast. I thought something was seriously wrong. The HV there never even mentioned the 6 week growth spurt, and it was only from MN that I found out what was causing that behaviour.

I know lots of people worry that they don't know how much milk baby is getting with bf, but a similar problem with ff is that while you know how much they're getting, you don't know how much they need.

I agree that for many women, the lack of control makes them distrust their babies and their bodies when it comes to feeding, which is a real shame.

This is a really interesting thread. I'm going to be doing a peer support course soon. I'm feeding DD (12m) and we go to a local bf cafe, which has been invaluable in providing support and real-life bf experiences.

I think that so few women experience family/close friends bf their DCs that bf has become some sort of mystery activity that only a few lucky women can manage, when in reality most women can do it if they want to and have the right information and support. There's no point continuing to push bf as 'best for baby' and all that if you don't tell women how to actually physically do it.

I think crap advice is very common sadly.

My community MW asked me when I was pg how I intended to feed my baby. I said I'd bf. She actually replied that it was good I had that intention, but I had to understand that I might not be able to! I have no health problems btw that might have interfered with milk supply.

This was the same MW who came round the day after we'd come home from hospital and berated me because the latch was wrong and DD wouldn't be getting enough milk! This was because she could see "too much" areola when DD was latched on. It took a few tearful bf sessions trying to get it "right" before the support of DP and a call to NCT helpline made me realise that my areola are so big poor DD would have had to dislocate her jaw like a snake to fit "enough" in! Same MW told me that DD should only be latched on for 20 mins as thats all the time it takes to feed and any longer is just for comfort!

There's also the assumption by the very people who should be promoting BF that FF is the default. DD is almost 4mos and HCPs usually assume she's ff. EG HV asked me what brand of formula I used and GP told me to mix gaviscon with her formula.

GP also told me when DD was 2 wks to limit feeds to every 2 hours!

I'm an educated woman and found it hard to sift the useful advice from the crap. No wonder women lose confidence.

Ds went to childminder at 6 months as I expressed twice a day at work for his feed around 4pm, then fed him in the morning before I went to work and before bed. A bit at StealthPolarBear mentioning night time feeds at 8-9 months though, as DS slept through from 14 weeks. I started weaning him earlier than I wanted to so he was having some solids before he went and I could do some of it myself. He quickly dropped his feed around 11 in favour of his lunch at 12,so was only having the 3 feeds when he went to childminder.

I always had lots of milk, soaked breastpads, spraying milk if I didn't get latch right but still worried about how much he was getting! Was 8lb 12 at birth and 9lb at 5 days old, was on 98th centile most of the rest of the time but the fact of not knowing was always difficult.

As you say I worried about cluster feeding, he would go from 10 until between 2 and 4 am and then woke again at 6 and wanted feeding within 1hr 30mins- 2hrs and I wondered why! Also the growth spurt at 6 weeks totally freaked me out as he had settled into some kind of natural routine by then and it was all of a sudden gone! My mum bottle fed and wanted me to bottle feed so she could feed DS so had no support from her and DH hated seeing me in pain for the first 8 weeks so was always offering to go and buy formula. It's such a shame that there are no that many women breast feeding so that they can support each other through those early days and that so many health professionals are not as well trained as they should be because we put our faith in them.

When I had DS weighed I was often asked how much I was feeding him when I said I didn't know because I was breastfeeding they said that's fine but I could never understand how I could overfeed on formula but couldn't on breastmilk. Then when I started weaning, even first few weeks where all he had was a few ice cubes of fruit or veg I was told I was giving him too much!! You can never win

I'm glad I persevered and would love to help others to succeed, but am very nervous about doing it second time around even though I know I can do it. At my antenatal yoga last week I was talking to 2 women about breastfeeding and one had no interest in listening to what I had to say even though I had done it before. I have to admit I thought I had read enough and didn't want help from anyone, too independant for my own good. By the time I sought help I was in serious pain, which may have been avoided if I had asked before.

MoonFaceMama - My nipples have never been sore. I am breastfeeding DS2 and both DD and DS1 were BF too. At the start I had a few seconds of pain in the first few seconds of a feed. But no sore nipples.

mumnwlondon i am very happy for you and other women who do not suffer sore nipples when starting out bfing. However it wasn't my experience, or that of many i have spoken to, or even thesecondcoming as above (not a scientific study i know).
However the pain i (and my friends) felt did settle down. It was not ongoing agony caused by poor latch as hp's might have you believe. It was just a part of the experience to be got through.

Had i been less bloodyminded confident i may have given up at this point, convinced by hp's that pain is a sure sign that bfing is not working. My friend did and regrets it to this day.

Imo it would be better for hp's to say that some pain is possible, but that once a poor latch is ruled out it will soon diminish. That way lucky ones like you still don't need to worry, while the rest of us can check our latch and grit our teeth! ...just like that!

Glad this post has made sense

I have been trying for ages to put into words the way I feel when people I know have told me that they 'failed' at bf, when it seems more like they just didn't have the right info or backup to persevere. I have also been told about lots of people who 'didn't have enough milk' etc.

Mumsnet and Kellymom helped me a lot!

Maybe we should design a factsheet 'Breastfeeding Myth vs Reality' and distribute it to all and sundry

I had to be quite bloodyminded too - for example if my PIL asked once if it was normal for newborn DS to feed as often, they asked 1000 times.

(PS loving the name Species8472 )

jaggythistle I am a bit of a Star Trek nerd!

Species8472 - I might be too....hehe!

I am imagining you being big and scary though

I know what you mean jaggy. Dh's grandma would ask if ds was getting enough when he was cluster feeding/growth spurting (!).

I knew he was as he wasn't crying, as he would be if frustrated and empty bellied, just feeding for ages as hungry. But it did make me wonder and about other women in dh's family that have given up bfing due to "issues with supply".

The thing is she bfed her four children. I wonder if the normalisation of ff in the meantime means she has forgotten what it was like?

I often wonder what do ff babies do during a growth spurt? Surely they must feed more too?

I always get the "oh, so your STILL producing enough milk then" from MIL and GP-IL"

I don't even know how to respond to that.

They also asked me whether every baby has growth spurts or was it just LO

These baby books that state that the normal time between feeds for a bf baby is 3 hours also annoy me.

Luckily despite LO being a slow weight gain baby, I've never had any pressure from HCP to switch to ff. I told the ILs that I was under HV orders to feed every 2 hrs because of the slow weight gain in order to get them of my back. Though the HV didn't believe in the 4month sleep regression or growth spurts.

I'd assumed that ff babies during growth spurts just co-incided with them increasing the amount that eat in one sitting eg from 6oz to 7oz. Though I have no evidence to back this up, its just how I responded to the ILs

Ds was a slow weight gain baby and the pressure from family and friends to supplement/switch to family was huge-I was even told I was witholding vital nutrients from him by not giving formula. Not the best thing to tell a struggling, already emotional new mum. Luckily I knew enough to ignore the helpful comments - It just made me even more determined to continue exclusivelg breastfeeding him.

I always get the "you'll soon be stopping when he gets teeth" comment from family and non bf friends. When I tell them my ds has 2 (now 4)already, I'm asked why he's not on formula now! I was quite impressed with the hv at our 8 month check when dh remarked on it and was told that it is perfectly possible to bf when the baby has a full mouth of teeth.

I really wish I'd had the details of the breastfeeding cafe before ds was born so I could have popped along and got some advice from mums feeding at all stages, especially being able to chat about cluster feeding and that it you can bf with flat/inverted nipples.

switch to formula not family

maybe switching families would be more useful

Sorry haven't read the whole thread (haven't got the concentration at this time of morning )

When I had my first baby it hadn't even entered my mind that bf would be difficult. I had seen my mum bf 3 younger siblings - one of them born only 7 years before my ds.

I do think having that confidence really helped establishing bf.

Just skimmed through as well. I wanted to say something WRT not being sure how much milk you have. I was in that position with DD1 and someone said to me "why don't you get a breast pump to check?" My advice is ""NEVER EVER DO THAT!"" Either I was too stupid to use it correctly or it just was not working with my type of brest.I was totally unable to express any milk, it almost drove me insane (well it actually drove me insane). My nipples were so sore for trying it was then excrutiating to feed DD. And while I was in a constanty panic, DD was just growing fine.

Trusting your instincts is so important and being prepared for the first 2 weeks to not be perfect helps as well. It is not as easy as everybody told me it would be, DD was learning how to do it as much as I was.

It also does takes nerves of steel to not listen to people. Like HappyTangerine said, you are constantly questionned by well meaning people "are you sure your dc gets enough" "when are you starting them on proper milk" oh and the tooth thing as well! Out of 4 DCs, I bf 3 for 2 years (ds2 for some reason absolutely refused to come anywhere near my brest at arround 6 month) only 1 was a "biter" (and it saddly did not happen to be Ds2.

I ebf for 4.5mo then mixed fed til ds was 6mo, then ff all the way. I returned to work early and expressing would have just been too tiring aswell as working ft.

I had zero experience going into bf and you do really have to have nerves of steel to trust that weight gain, wet and dirty nappies does mean it is working - despite their ability to seemingly want to be permanently attached to you! You cannot help but think that their wanting to suckle for 4 hours every evening means they are not getting enough, but no - it is cluster feeding!

I think a lot of people have a hard time reconciling that bf is hard work, but you sort of feel like that you shouldn't feel like that wrt to your baby. It is also very tiring and almost lonely, as no other bugger can do it for you. I think sometimes ff is suggested by well meaning people as it is something they can do to help. As soon as ds went ff all the time, dh could then feed him at night, my mum could take him off my hands and feed him etc etc.

I also agree with previous posters who mention routines. If you read many routine based books, they are really set up for ff babies, as the timings and fed on demand aspects just didn't seem to work with bf - well not for me anyway. I tried a routine for about 2 days before giving up and just going with the flow. I kept to the no routine even when he did go onto ff and into nursery, they used to laugh at me when I said we had no timings set up for anything - but it has worked for us.

Anyway I digress, I would also like to add that for me there was pain and blocked ducts, but luckily for me only on 1 side, so I was able to determine that it was not normal and set about fixing it. If I had had it on both sides, I may well have thought this was normal and given up (in fact I nearly did at 1.5mo, but it was only bloody mindedness and the thought of all the hard work I had put in, that stopped me).

So, in long, I agree!