Bit upset following discussion with HV - apparently bfing past 6 months is not really going to benefit my DD

[wasabipeanut]

Wasn't sure where to post this as involves bf and weaning.

So, I take ebf'd 22 week old DD to be weighed today. All good, tracking 40th centile so no grief re topping up or early weaning.

HV asks about weaning plans and I say I plan to continue ebfing until 26 weeks and then start BLW.

Various comments followed.

1. They recommend vitamins for babies still breast fed at 26 weeks.

2. If you start weaning at 26 weeks you have to really crack on with it as they need all food groups, vitamins, iron etc. A 26 week old will not get what they need from breast milk.

3. A baby has realised all the benefits it ever will by being bf'd for 6 months. The implication being that bfing beyond this point is for my benefit not hers.

Now I know for a fact that 3 is bollocks but points 1 and 2 worry me slightly. I did say, well if it is so crucial they are eating a good amount at 26 weeks then shall I start before and she said, no, the guidelines are 26 weeks. I'm just a bit confused because from what I have seen it takes a good few weeks/months for babies to actually start taking in many calories from solids if they are BLW and I thought milk still remained their main source of nutrition. According to HV she says my DD will probably start dropping feeds quite quickly.

I'm a bit upset about the whole thing really as she seemed quite down on the idea of bfing past 6 months. I had rather got used to the idea and was proud of myself for getting this far after some major difficulties around the 12 week mark. I feel a bit deflated really. I don't need her validation but I am now worried about weaning when I wasn't before.

Can anyone help to clarify?

I am coming a bit late to this discussion but I got told the same things. When I asked why the vitamin drops, they explained it was because all breastfed babies in my postcode area got them. I pushed a bit and they said it was because of the large number of black women wearing the burkha or similar in this area. I pointed out that as I'm neither it probably didn't affect me. I was told to administer the drops anyway as I lived in a high risk area for rickets. I did. They made DS's tummy hurt. I stopped administering them and was tutted at. I didn't feel too bad as I had worked out by then that the HV was an idiot and had less scientific knowledge than even I do.

Even I know that you can't catch rickets from your neighbours.

The same HV also told me to start weaning at 5 months.

How come they are still telling people this stuff?

Bertie - I understand that they need to catch those who do start weaning early but when I said that we weren't even thinking about
it yet, she looked like this and basically implied that:

1. No way would we be able to stick it out until 26 weeks and

2. the recommendations are crap anyway.

3. the reason DS was not yet sleeping through was because he was hungry and I was starving him by not giving him any baby rice. (my MIL would have loved tohear her sy that)

I didn't mind the visit so much but DID mind the patronising and the assumption that the recommendations were impossible to stick to. If she had approached the topic from a point of starting weaning at 6 months, I may have listened to her and gained something from her (hell - I know very little about raising babies). But as it is I stopped listening very early on.

Oh - and image should be encouraging early weaners to wait surely?

I asked GP about vitamins after 6 months (as had heard all this) and was told not to take them. There seems to be no definitive opinion.
It is bollocks to say no benefits for baby after 6 months. Very convenient too, as since you can't give cow's milk till 12 months, you'll be forced to use formula. Sorry you're having this experience OP, try not to let it get you down.

Well, make sure you see her next week and, when she asks how the weaning is going, say ooh, dd is doing so well with various tastes and textures, and she's drinking a bottle of water morning and night.

And when she freaks out, saying you should be giving her milk at this stage, ask her exactly what makes bovine milk superior to human milk.

She sounds like a dumbo, frankly.

Oh, OK Time - what a shame then that she was probably encouraging more people to start early

My experience with crap HV weaning advice was being told that I could start at 5 months "Because you have given formula, haven't you?"
"No, I haven't."
"Really? Are you sure?!"
I think it was because DS gained loads of weight early on then slowed down massively at 4 months and they were insisting I give him a teaspoon of baby rice if he hadn't put more weight on by next month.

Anyway their 5 month theory was that the 6 month rule was only to do with allergies anyway and if you had ever given formula, then you had already introduced an allergen (cow's milk protein) - I have no idea how this was relevant if the baby had an egg or peanut allergy or anything. It made no sense at all so I just didn't go back to the clinic. I was a bit nervous but they didn't ring up to check or anything like I thought they would.

Have you been on a website called www.kellymom.com/? It is really supportive and knowledgeable.

Generally twaddlybollocks.

I would consider Vitamin D, but having considered it I've rejected it for my babies because I am scarily pale, we live in the south of the UK, and we're outside quite a bit. Whether it's right for your baby depends on the various factors mentioned already, or of you just want to take a belt-and-braces type approach.

In general no need for other vitamins or for iron. There is less iron in breastmilk than in formula, but it's in a more easily-absorbed form.

Regarding the old "its for the mother's benefit, not the babies" chestnut then perhaps you could ask her to explain wtf is wromg with doing something that benefits you.

Breastfeeding is much, much more convenient than formula for many women. This alone should be enough justification for wanting to continue regardless of other advantages such as weightloss or reducing the risk of maternal cancers etc even if their was zero advantage to the baby. There is a section of society that regards women as walking incubators who should martyr thenselves for their baby. Anything that is mutually beneficial for mother and baby or soley beneficial for the mother is seen as bad. You don't find many things outside parenting where people will ask "why would you do that?" regarding something that is normal, natural, your private business and of obvious benefit to you.

On the subject of vitamin drops I got given them by my HV who had got a new batch in that morning. As she was talking I was reading the ingrediants and saw that they contained peanut oil. WTF? This is a six month old baby (with potential atophy due to DH) and they want to give me peanut oil?

To be fair when I pointed this out she was shocked too and took them back. So DS didn't get any and he was fine...

I have a brilliant HV and has been totally supportive about BF. I weaned DD at 26 weeks and the HV just told me to give a variety of foods, but to take my time and take it at DD's pace. She didn't mention any of the stuff your HV has mentioned.

When I told her I was still BF at the 1 year check, she gave me a huge smile, said 'brilliant!' and then carried on with the questions.....

Sorry that yours seems so pants. Mine is the only decent one at our surgery and the others are as bad as yours. Definitely very hit and miss...

Thank God for MN!

I agree with some of the others. Only you can assess your personal situation. Vit D drops are recommended, but you can decide whether or not your baby needs them. My understanding is that baby's vit D status is linked to mum's status in pregnancy. Did you get plenty of strong sunlight each day in pregnancy? Do you have dark skin? What time of year were you pregnant? (winter light not good for vit D). You can also factor in the skin colour of your baby and how much sun they get.

Your baby's iron status is more linked how soon the cord was clamped after bith. If it was delayed until it stopped pulsing and baby was healthy and full term, they baby's iron stores should be sufficient to last to 9 months. Breastmilk contains v little iron and supplementing mum has no effect on the content. However, the iron in breastmilk is much more bioavailable than a supplement or iron from formula. One approach is to make sure you offer foods relatively early on that contain iron, eg meat. This can be done with a baby-led approach.

Hvs say some silly things, don't know why there are so few who aren't informed re bf.

I did blw with ebf baby from 26 weeks and although it took quite a while to build up the feeding he's remained on a high centile and has been pretty healthy, so bm must have worked. At his 10 mth check (he's now nearly 1, am not into weighing but hv phoned and asked to see him as he hadn't been since 5 mths!) hv was rather shocked that I was bfing and said "well he looks so healthy I'll let that go". Obv she didn't think there might be a connection!

Thought about vit drops but we go outside lots so didn't . Agree with other posters though that vit d deficiency can be an issue so good to be aware.

Took a while to build up the solids I mean.

Btw didn't bother with baby rice on advice of a bf counsellor.

It might not all be rubbish... my sil bf until around 18 months and was slow to wean. around that time her DS broke his leg, but they were not aware that he'd fallen. turned out he was deficient in iron and vit d and that was why he'd broken his leg without a fall. vit d deficiency common in bf babies.

MuminNWLondon - I don't think this is correct, sorry. Vit D deficiency is not 'common' in bf babies, is it? It's not bf that is deficient, but lifestyle, in some communities in some places....for a few. Getting outside on most days and having solid food which includes vit d is sufficient for most babies - there's maybe a case for dark-skinned ethnic groups in the UK, esp North of the UK, having a supplement if they are bf past 6 mths (supplement is already added to the formula), but not really necessary as a general rule.

Ditto with iron - of course iron deficiency is possible, but it's not because of bf. It's because of lack of iron-rich solids.

You know I reckon they have some kind of internal panic alarm about BF
I remember when ds3 was about a year old. He was a very clingy child, wanted to breast feed constantly. It was a bit waring.
The HV told me he should not be doing this, she said that he wasn't getting the right food groups and that he was obviously crying because he was hungry as he was feeding to much and he was too thin.
She said if he asked for breast during the day I should give him a biscuit and make him sit on the floor next to me. I should not sit him on my lap or touch him whilst he was eating.

What fab advice: don't touch your own child when he comes for some affection. Affection= no touching and giving of biscuits. No possible psychological issues there then
What an absolute knob
I'm still bf him and he is 3

She was told vit d deficiency common in babies who are BF for more than one year.

A friend who is a paed said though that lots of children are vit d deficient

re: iron, there is some in formula so i guess if still BFing after 6-8 months need to make sure iron rich food.

Utter nonsense except the vitamin D. Have your own levels checked. If they are fine, baby will be fine. If they are low, supplement yourself and baby.

Very interesting thread... I'm planning on BLW in a few months and have just started to think about the vit d/iron considerations.

When people say dark skinned do they mean black or very dark skinned? I ask because though my DS is only a quarter Chinese (rest is Caucasian) he has fairly dark skin - like he has a light tan iykwim. I'm therefore a bit undecided about the vit d drops (live in the south, go outside a lot).

Good tip slouchingtowardswaitrose - I think I might do that for peace of mind.

Vitamin D dificiency is common in breastfed babies. It is common in the population generally but is a paticular problem in the young, the old and pg women even if they are pale skinned. Other Northern countries reccomend suplementation to the whole population, others to vunerable groups, others fortify their cows milk. People in the North of the UK cannot make Vitamin D from the sun at all during the winter and need to overcompensate in the Summer to make reserves. This presents an obvious problem for babies who either weren't born during the summer or who were kept in the shade because they are newborn. To add to this problem, pregnancy puts an enormous demand on vitamin D stores as it is needed for growth and many babies are born difficient to difficient mothers so require more than a maintenace level.

Do you have the specific figures on how common it is, LouAnn?

"or who were kept in the shade because they are newborn"

Come on get your facts right, Vit D is produced by exposure to UV. You don't need to be in direct sunlight to get UV exposure, just as you can burn in the shade if it's a hot sunny day so should still wear suncream.
You don't actualy need much UV exposure to make enough vit D, only about 15 minutes a day with cloths on. The biggest problem seen in resent years has acctualy been the increased use of suncream as even a low factor suncream can block UV expose. So they recomend you should go out before 11am or after 3pm and get your daily UV fix before slapping on the suncream.

The biggest risk of course being to those with dark skin living in northen latiatudes. Us pale skined northeners probably don't have to much to worry about, espicaly if you get your daily UV fix. Which I do even in winnter.

You need to asses your own risk and decided wearther it's worth you taking vit D or not.

This website gives all the information you need.
www.kellymom.com/nutrition/vitamins/index.html

OFFS - bloody HVs (and I am one so am allowed to be bloody irritated by them sometimes). Your HV is talking a load of bolloux as everyone else here has told you and as you pretty much worked out for yourself.

Will echo the advice to look at the kellymom site which is excellent.

Oh and vitamin drops - well if your area stocks them then great - they are nigh on impossible to get hold of here. Needless to say this does not mean I contact all the bf mums on my caseload and ask them "are yer weaning yet luv"?