DS 8m & stopping night feeds?

[Tweetinat]

I'm having some really bad sleep problems with DS and the HV came round today to waste my time offer some advice...

She told me that I should, immediately, stop feeding DS at night as he doesn't need it. We do BLW (she doesn't approve) and he really doesn't take much in at the mo, so this seems to be the wrong thing in this instance and our circumstances.

Any one have any views? Is 8m too young to be going cold turkey on night milk (he only feeds once usually, the other night wakings he doesn't want milk...) Or am I being PFB and I should just get it over and done with.

Oh, he's still breast fed btw.

TIA

i think it's too young to stop night feeds yes

It depends, I started cutting down night feeds with dd at 8months, but that was connected to major sleep issues we had (she was waking every 40 mins and fed to sleep). If the night waking isn't bothering you too much and you're just worried about him not eating enough then I wouldn't bother stopping. Eight months is still very early into the weaning process and milk will be his main source of nutrition for a while yet.

Ignore HV. If it's not bothering you, what business is it of hers?

Sorry, just re-read your OP and realised I'd missed the bit about really bad sleep problems. So the night waking is bothering you, but it sounds like if he's only feeding once in the night then that won't make that much difference?

I stopped night feeds (by going cold turkey) at 6mths for both my DS's, so no I don't think it is too young.

Personally I think that the earlier you do it the quicker they forget they ever had milk at night,

but I would only do it once they were on three good meals a day as otherwise they would probably be waking hungry rather than just out of habit,

Thanks for the replies - yes, the sleep issues do not seem related to his night feeding. He's awake for 1.5/2 hours most nights - wide awake and playing - for no particular reason and then up at anytime from 4.30am. He doesn't (usually) want to feed at this time and feeding to sleep doesn't really work anymore cos If I 'offer' he may suckle for a bit but then pops off and continue playing.

She seemed to think that this was the first step in getting this wide awake malarky sorted. I have to say I was a bit - especially when I told her that he doesn't eat much in the day. She seemed to think that this was because he was feeding at night... If he was on the boob all night she might have a point, but he's not... Unless I'm being dumb and it really is affecting his daytime solids?

One feed at night is not going to affect his daytime eating. I fail to see how cutting out that nighttime feed will help him sleep the rest of the night?

What about naps? Is he sleeping enough/too little or too late in the day?

Have just stopped night feeds with my DS (10 months). Also (mostly) BLW. We tried to do this using the 'DH going in' method a couple of times around 7-8 months but it didn't work at all. Not only did he become hysterical, but once DH did settle him to sleep, he then woke up again an hour later. Once he was fed however, he would sleep for about 3 hours. So very about the blanket "once they get to 6 months they don't need to be fed" thing. Not helpful IMO. I think his feeds have been partly hunger, but also comfort and I've felt that BF is a valid way of comforting a distressed baby, especially if nothing else works. As nightwaking is such an issue for us, we have been using ideas from the No Cry Sleep Solution (heartily recommended). Part of this has been changing his routine so that he finished his BF awake, then has a story then into bed. It has taken a couple of months, but it would seem that he is now at a point where he more easily accepts other forms of comfort at night (rocking, cuddling). In fact, we didn't even set out to stop BF this time, it just so happened that one night he didn't feed until 5am so we have continued in this vein and he doesn't seem to look for it now (we have given him water in the hot spell though). I don't think this is a definitive answer to his night waking but I figure it has to help, and he is slowly becoming more settled. Long post, sorry, but my advice FWIW would be that if you feel you want to have a go at stopping night feeds, then see how it goes, but that he may not be ready and if not its ok to wait and try again later. I really think that our DS was not ready when we first tried, but is now (and he does eat tons more now as well). Your HV is not being helpful. Ignore her. The advice is so variable - mine has (thankfully) been OK, but I've met others who haven't been. Do get a hold of the NCSS and perhaps consider the joining 'misguided illusion' thread for those of us battling chronic sleep deprivation. Good luck

Yeah, that's what I think MrsKitty but I've become so entrenched with my position that I needed to get a second opinion!

Naps are ok - varying between 2 - 3hrs a day, roughly every 2hrs after his last wake up and I try to make sure that his last nap isn't too long or that he wakes up too close to bedtime. Roughly goes like this:

6.30 awake
8.30/9 nap for 1 - 1.5 hrs
12.30/1 nap for 1 - 1.5 hrs
3/3.30 nap for 0.5-1hr
6.15/6.30 bath
6.45/7 boob
7/7.30 bed (depending on how long it takes him to settle)

Naps do vary depending if I'm out (tend to be short and longer between them) and if he falls asleep in the car, so today for eg. he napped at 5-5.30 as I was on my way back from somewhere, but then he awoke at 7.30 today so everything was pushed back a bit anyway...

HI Tweetinat- I'm in a very similar situation to you..8mo DS, blw, ebf and waking in the night too. In fact in the last few nights, it's gone from just one night waking to a couple. He stays awake and messes around, kicking his legs, making noises etc. I wonder if it's the heat or just a developmental phase that is disturbing him.

Anyway, I'm not sure what to do either, think I'll just ride it out for now and wait till things get really desperate.

Interesting. I've got a post in sleep about much the same with my 8mo DS. Sounds like it might be another developmental phase. Oh Joy.

8 months is not too early to stop night feeds.

We stopped DD's night feeds at 4 months and DS's at a bit over 5 months.

Sleeping at night is a good thing.

I think the one night feed is a red herring here - One night feed is perfectly acceptable at 8 mths IMO - It's the other wakings that need to be dealt with, and I can't see that the two are connected.

I do wonder whether having a play around with nap times/frequencies might be worth a try? But, of course, it might just be a developmental thing - learning new skills can be very disruptive to sleep patterns. How long's it been going on for? DD (9 mths)had a bit of a playing in the middle of the night thing going on recently, but it only lasted around a week before she went back to normal (waking once or twice, usually only once for a feed).

Agreed MrsKitty. Sorry hadn't managed to catch up on the extra details re: night waking before my (overlong) post. They're all individuals IMO but 2 naps instead of 3? Will be hard though if he's tired from night waking, and I've found DS much harder to get down if overtired. Definitely recommend No Cry Sleep Solution (look on amazon) and here is the link for the misguided illusion thread if you're interested.

"Acceptable" to you, perhaps.

Others might think not think of a reason to continue waking up in the middle of the night to feed, burp, change, out back to sleep their baby at an age when they are perfectly capable of sleeping through the night without a feed.

OK, CoteDAzur, but the OP asked for views/opinions. I gave mine. And as I said before - the issue doesn't seem to be with the feed (burp/change - who does that past a few weeks? ) it's with the other wakings, at which the baby doesn't want to feed anyway.

an 8 month doesnt need milk at night. I have heard so many people in the same situation as you and the ones that stop any feeding at night definatley have children that sleep better but it can involve a bit of a struggle to get them used to no milk.

What do people consider 'night feeds'? Never sure, as DS goes to bed around 6.30pm and wakes up for the day around 6am, but that seems a very long time for him not to feed? Do people generally count it as the hours that you'd be in bed, ie, I go to bed at 10pm and get up with him (joy!! ), so should I aim to not be feeding between then? (He wakes frequently BTW.)

It confuses me, as up until now I've been feeding my 1.5 month old co-sleeper to sleep every 2 hours and have decided I've definitely had enough now. Is 12 hours a beautiful dream?!

that should be 10.5 month!

I'd probably class a night feed as any time between around 10pm-6am.

OP, I don't know if you're aware of it, but many babies go through a 'sleep regression' at 8/9 months, because their brains are too busy working on a developmental spurt. If it's not something that has been going on for months, this may well be the problem - if it is, stopping night feeds wouldn't make any difference. There's more info on this regression here, here and here.

My DD (like your DS, BF and BLW) stopped night feeds herself at 6.5 months. To explain... she'd had a dreamfeed of expressed milk from DH around midnight, he was away on business and I was v tired, so thought rather than wait up till 11ish 12ish to feed her, would go to bed and she would wake me when she was hungry. And we both woke up at 7am - me v surprised. And that was that!

I'm back - sorry for abandoning the thread!

I definitely think it's developmental crikey and azazello - I've seen some small sleep improvement in that the long wide awake stints we were having have stopped and that seems to have coincided with a mass of new things being learnt.

MrsKitty - this has been going on for a good two/three weeks now and as mentioned he's been showing us new tricks every day so I think his little body is in overload.

I've also wondered carve whether he's ready to drop down to two naps, and have started to play around with them a little so only time can tell whether it make much difference.

I agree with you Cote that sleeping at night is a good thing, but (bar once) his waking is NOT feed related - he just wants to play, so I don't see how dropping his only night feed will make much (if any) difference there. And fwiw, when he does wake to feed, he immediately falls back to sleep so I'm back in bed within 20mins (and I've never changed or burped in the night - bad mummy )

I think that, for me, there isn't one answer for everyone - I think it very much depends on that particular child and their nutritional intake throughout the rest of the 24 hrs. I know full well that my little one doesn't get much, if any, calories from his solids atm, so I feel that dropping feeds just isn't right - even at 8months. If he was tucking into 3 good meals a day then I would feel differently. Just the same at 4months when he just was too excited to feed much in the day, I knew that he needed those night feeds and I wouldn't have dreamt of stopping them. But obviously others feel differently and are comfortable stopping feeds at that age.

I do have a copy of the NCSS carve (which I need to get back from a friend as I thought bad nights were all over so will have another read and see what I can implement. Will also stalk that other thread but as you can see I don't always come online for days so prob won't post