Colic and Reflux

[JoshsDad]

Can anyone offer any advice. My wife and I have a 5 week old son who is being bottle fed. He was bringing up some of his milk and hates the wind that he gets. He strains to get it out and this often makes him bring his milk back up. He will settle if lay across our chest but this is obviously no good when in his moses basket. We have seen an episode of the Baby Whisperer on reflux and thought it may be this? Any ideas? We have tried Infacol but at times the wind really annoys him and makes him cry out. He is our first so this is very upsetting.

Hiya,

We have a new baby too, also on bottles (expressed milk with formula top ups). First few weeks not much wind, but it's now becoming a bit of a prob. Also getting spit ups / dribble / bottle flow back / bubbles in bottle, occasional bigger suck ups etc. etc. etc. Sometimes Camille is OK with it, sometimes it makes her rather peeved.

We've bought infacol but haven't used it yet. I reckon it's the bottles we've been uising (Avent ones, comes with the steriliser, supposedly 'for Collic')... I think it's because their design is somewhat pants and is not really a fully 'vented' bottle ISYWIM.

I have some Dr Browns bottles on order (should arrive today) and I'll post in a few days if they make a difference. They are also called 'BFree' and are a pain to clean (lots of different components), but should make a difference.

We also have been trying a different teat in the last few days - NUK - they have a little vented slit in the teat base to let air re-equalise. IMHO these have been better for babba than the Avent teats. You can get them in lots of chemists, often on different types of bottle.

HTH, & welcome to mumsnet.(haven't noticed your name before, but haven't searched, so apologies if you've been around a while).

typo: suck ups > puke ups.

If it is trapped wind causing him to posset then that isn't strictly reflux, which is caused by a weak valve at the top of the stomach. A change of bottle, formula or feeding position may help with the wind or even a dilute fennel tea if Infacol isn't helping. Your dw could try baby massage as a means of relieving his discomfort - her HV, gp surgery or even local library may know of local classes.

hth

Stick some books under one end of the ct feet so he is tilted...helps to stop night time sickiness

Keep him upright for a whole after a feed
Wind himhalf way through a feed not just at the ebd

If you can bear it, try for smaller more regular feeds rather than bigger ones which he wil just bring up

Speak to your HV if it doesnt settle.......DS2 is 23 weeks now and fine...it was about 10 weeks before reflux began to settle......coincided with the time we started a baby massage course....excuse one handed ty[ing

cross posts with lizs

The course we id is based on a book by vmula mcclure -amazon have it

i swear baby massage really helped

We couldn't find the Doc Browns bottles in 9oz feeds so we got the tommee tippee ones. We also had the avent ones but changed to the tommee tippee ones (similar to Doc Browns in that they have a valve) but we are still finding that he brings up. It is more him getting streesed with the wind in his tummy. He really strains to bring it up, or push it out because he has a very windy bottom. First time on mumsnet. My wife asked me to look to see if there was any info on reflux.

Reflux and colic very different - from my experience with our son who had reflux, reflux babies tend to want to drink a lot, and slowly (to ease the pain), prefer to be vertical rather than horizontal (so will be happier nestled upright against you rather than lying down), usually sleep better on their side than on their back (but really want to sleep on their tummies when they are old enough to role over), can bring up milk immediately after feed, or 2 hours after, or anywhere in between (the longer after a feed, the more it will look like cottage cheese as opposed to liquid milk), have trouble sleeping for long stretches, sometimes you can "smell" the acid in their vomit, sometimes there can be quite a lot of vomit (rather than the normal "posseting" which all babies have)

any of this sound like your son? otherwise, you may want to explore the colic route - sorry can't advise on that as luckily, we only had the one thing to deal with

koalabear is spot on about reflux

Can only echo hub really- I breastfed but ds still got colic....not sure about reflux.

Infacol really did help- best to give it before a feed and if possible 3-5 mins before a feed for best results. We used it till ds was about 16 weeks old.

Bfree/ DR brown- are well worth the faff of cleaning. the teats are lovely and soft and were the only bottle ds ever took. No bubbles like avent!

Tips- we found that ds poos were green tinged when colic was bad. If you are having problems in the evening with bedtime and colic we know several people (inc us) who found bathing baby in a tummy tub (or bucket!) after the tea time feed (when you want them to sleep for 4+ hours) helped settle them. Baby massage might also help- gently lifting baby's knees up to his/her chest and giving a gentle wiggle (do it on a mat just in case ).

Joshsdad- ds still prefers to sleep on daddy's chest at 18 months old.....colic is awful but my dh found it great bonding time!

Hey, JD - Safetots do them and also Baby Assistant do them. I ordered from safetots on Thursday, who had stock, but I haven't had them yet, so take that as you will.

We're gonna try the Dr. Browns for a week or so and possibly try a move from SMA to Aptamil.

There are also good things being said about these bottles (vented bottoms, LOL) ITH.

I take it you/dw are fine with burping positions etc. ? (Our baby came early and we were shown in Special Care Unit about straightish back, supported chin, slight rock forwards and back etc. etc.)

What our son does sounds very much like how koalabear described her baby. I know the HV is coming around tomorrow so maybe she will be able to advise further. He is putting weight on - he was 8lb when born (9 days early) and weighed in at 9lb 7 after 4 weeks but the wind really annoys him. His wind from his bottom is really bad, he never seems to stop and it is this that gets him wound up - he really strains to get it out. Any idea how they test to see if it is reflux?

Agree with koalabears's description of reflux. dd spent many nights curled up on dh's chest before we knew what the issue was, also wouldn't settle flat in pram or basket.

Are you giving 9 oz feeds already ? If so that sounds like quite a lot, so could he be bringing back excess ? Perhaps less, more often would help ?

Sorry for the confusion. He is on 5oz feeds but the bottles seemed to go from 4oz to 9oz so we are using the 9oz bottles. He seems to be better on the TT bottles rather than the avent ones but the bottom wind still seems to agitate him.

Sounds like you have two issues - wind and reflux.

Regarding the wind, are you using expressed milk in bottle, or formula? If expressed milk, my girlfriend had overnight success with stoping colic in her baby by stopping HER consumption of all dairy food (ok, it's only a sample size of 1, but its an example all the same). If you are using formula, the first thing I would do is change that - I would go for Aptimil (we formula fed from 6 to 12 months, and that is what I personally thought was the best one). If that doesn't work, I would try a soy-based formula, to see if it the cowsmilk base that is upsetting the little chap.

In respect of reflux, there are degrees of reflux from quite mild to quite severe, with different ways of treating it depending upon the severity. Also, IME HVs will try to "fob you off" with the "don't worry, he'll grow out of it" line, which is small comfort when he is screaming his little lungs out at 3 am. So, suggest a trip to the GP rather than the HV, and outline your concerns. You can buy "over the counter" infant gaviscon in the first instance, which you mix with formula, or give via a spoon/syringe in the mouth, which works the same as adult gaviscon by forming a little floating top on the stomach to prevent the acid coming up into the throat. If he gets relief from that, you more or less have the answer yourself. Also, if you ask the chemist, they usually have over the counter "reflux" formulas which are thinking that the normal type, and therefore in theory, stay down. None of this worked for us, and we ended up at the paediatrician who prescribed Enfamil AR, which has to be said, was the answer to every 3 am prayer I've ever said!

Good luck

er, that should be "thicker than the normal type" not "thinker"

Hi JoshsDad - welcome to mumsnet and congrats on your new boy. Have you considered if it might be lactose intolerance? The transient type is very common for the first few months and the main symptom is excessive wind. My ds2 now 19 weeks had extremely bad wind at first and would wake up screaming with it. We have been using Colief (lactase enzyme) with much success since 8 weeks. You can buy it over the counter for £9.99 or get it on prescription. If you do try it give it 24hrs to kick in. You will know by then if it's going to work or not. We were so relieved when it did - he's a different baby now. We took him off it for a couple of days a few weeks ago to see if he was over the lactose intolerance yet and the symptoms came back, so I'm very confident that it's the Colief making the difference. We also tried Colief with ds1 and it didn't make any difference, so obviously not the same problem. Good luck.

We are using the Cow and Gate premium formula at the moment. He loves the milk itself because he will take nearly all of his 5oz feed in less than half an hour. It is the bringing his wind up that he heates - he moves his head from side to side to stop it from happening and then his face goes red when it is on it's way and if he is struggling with bottom wind then this is when he brings his milk up. Can be very upsetting seeing this as you just want him to stop and let it come naturally!

Joshsdad - try a soy-based formula for the wind given what you have said - he may love the taste of Cow and Gate, but it might not be good for him!

JoshsDad - please don't go down the soya formula route without doing some research - there's growing evidence to suggest there might be long term issues with it. There's plenty of other things to try first.

really phatcat - i wasn't aware of that - it is very interesting - best i stick to reflux, and not colic, in the way of advice

yes unfortunately so - it was one of the options I considered for ds2 but I looked it up on here and also Googled it and decided against it. The main issues seem to be to do with allergies (soy is same family as peanut) and also the long term effects (partic on boys) of the phyto-oestrogens soy contains. No hard clinical evidence as such, as it hasn't been in mainstream use for that long, but there was plenty I read which put me off it anyway.

JD - could it be worth interrupting the feed after say 10 mins etc. to try and bring up a juicy burp then, instead of waiting till the end of the feed ?

Perhaps you're already trying this....

I have an 11wk old DS,who has suffered from reflux since day 1 but only diagnosed at 6 wks. I have been taking him to a cranial osteopath for a few weeks (not just for the reflux though) I do think he is improving, whether it is the osteopathy or the gaviscon or just the fact he is getting older. The main signs he showed of reflux was the delayed vomiting and the arching of his back, apparantly that is a classic sign of reflux. I also use the Dr Browns and Mams anti colic bottles. The one thing I have done recently is to go up to stage 2 teats. My DS got really irate when it took too long to take his bottle, causing him to get really tense, therefore increasing the chance of vomiting.

JoshsDad - how are you getting on with your son?

JoshsDad, how's your little one? Have just posted under 'fussy eating' topic with a link about reflux which might be useful. Also a link about calming 'fussy babies'. Agree with Popsycal that baby massage is brilliant, worked well with ds1 who had colic and with ds2 who has reflux - at least it was great until he started to crawl around .