6weeks til can "officially" start weaning! What to do in meantime?

[Thandeka]

DD is 20weeks. Breastfeeding going great after an incredibly difficult start where loads went wrong with feeding. As a result supply has never been plentiful and DD has always had one bottle (sometimes two) of formula in the day too.

I thought we were moving past the 4month sleep regression as last week she was regularly going 8hours after weeks of wobbly sleep. This week however is worst its ever been. Monday night she woke every 90mins for a feed, last night it was very 40mins. I am on my knees!

She seems hungrier in the day too. I feed on demand and she drains boobs in about 20mins max.

So what do I do now? Increase her formula or start her on baby rice or whatever? (I have tried and failed several times to boost BM supply so will just have to make do with what I have- I do want to keep feeding as long as possible and will always offer breast first)

She is a big baby, holds head upright, is always staring at and grabbing at food, (not quite lost her tongue thrust yet) - I did want to wait until 6months before I started weaning her but I can't have her going hungry in the meantime- Help!

food is less calorific then your milk so weaning her will not make her less hungry. Some babies like the whole experience of eating though especially if you do blw and offering some food may make her more settled as it gives her something to do and explore. Try to keep the quantities down though as you may find that she stops feeding so much during the day (full tummy) but feeds ALL NIGHT as she needs the calories

food fills up her tummy for longer, as it is harder to digest, but contains far fewer calories - if she's hungry she needs milk, it should be the main source of nuitrition until she's 1.

Yup I wasn't planning on reducing any feeds at all (apart from attempting the all night ones!) just trying to increase her intake.
Hmm maybe will try an extra bottle formula in the day and maybe offer her one in middle of night too after a breastfeed. Trouble is madam does not know when to stop- she eats and eats and then vomits up whole thing so its difficult to work out how much a formula top up should be.

Maybe I should attempt to boost supply again but I know it probably won't work for all the effort and its a wonder am feeding at all anyhow so am just grateful she gets any breastmilk!

at this stage it might not seem like your supply is going up - your boobs may well stop ever feeling 'full' but that doesn't mean your supply isn't increasing.
someone on here said something a few days ago that put it really well - your bm is like a river, not a pond - it's a continuous flow, it doesn't get used up, then have to be replenished before dd can have more.
I EBF to 6m and still feed now (dd is 3 in august), haven't felt 'full' since dd was about 4 months old.

oh and my dd's sleep got worse when she started solids I've not heard of anyone giving their baby solids and them suddenly improving sleep wise, sorry, I think it's a bit of a myth....

just saw this and Disagree with RobynLou's experience. All my babies slept more after solids 20 weeks + as long as it wasn't the wrong sort of solids. slow introduction, not too much banana plenty of carbs that sort of thing.
It is not necessarily a myth.

It is true that your supply will increase although your breasts will feel less full, that certainly was true for me. Even if you give extra formula, that formula can go into baby cereal, or be replaced with milky cheesy things, later on when you are giving solids properly, so you don't need to feel that it is the end of breastfeeding,and that all feeds will be replaced ultimately by bottles. I found I was fully breastfeeding, and giving no bottles (having given them before) once the babies (this was twins) were on solids by 6 months, though I did wean earlier than people do now.

Yet I had such issues with breastmilk supply for first few months, I can hardly believe that by 6 months there was no problem feeding both babies 80percent of their milk feeds from the breast. But it did sort itself out, I just fed quite frequently in the day, possibly more than a bottlefed baby.
So you CAN DO IT. Have confidence, use formula if you need to, but trust yourself as well.

Even friends who waited to wean till 26 weeks with recent babies, who had loads of milk from start, found this a stressful time with increased feeding day and night until the start of solids. But they got through in the end, it was just a phase, their milk caught up.

thandeka, could the extra feeding be linked to the hot weather? she might be super-thirsty and a bit grouchy in the heat? mine is (as am i ).

boobs have been soft for a while so am (was!) comfortable with how much milk I have! Had we had a better start to breastfeeding (long story involving nicu, tube feeds, breast reduction, no suck, tongue tie etc etc) then maybe I would be more confident now but I figure will aim for EBF for next one! I guess because she has formula already am not averse to giving her more- so long as it doesn't affect my existing breastfeeding so would need to guard against that.

Swanriver- breastfeeding twins- you rule!

I think I might try her on the odd bit of baby rice/extra formula as I figure at the minute her sleeping can't actually get any worse!

Think last nights sleep issues may have also been caused by me being knackered (from previous night) and plonking her on boob as soon as she woke to get her back to sleep asap when actually she may not have been uber hungry so perhaps tonight I should try and settle her first.

Also did cranial osteopathy (2nd session) on monday- her first session she had best week of sleep ever, 2nd session its all gone to pot- not sure I will go back!

and yup last night was a bit stuffy- she can sleep in a nappy tonight! Maybe will give it a few days before starting and see how she goes....

my ds is just behind your dd so i've just been reading the gill rapley baby led weaning book and it is great! But it does say, as other posters have said, that milk will be the main source of nutrition for quite some time. The first couple of months (varys from child to child) are for developing skills for, an interest in, and digestion for eating solids. So whiled your dd is learning this she may neede more milk to fill her up. A key point about begining weaning (according to said book) is not to offer solids when they are hungry, as at first they do not even realise the food is for eating, let alone that it will fill them up. This realisation comes around eight months...so that's after three months of playing with it!

Would really recommend the book. Lots of usefull stuff about developing positive attitudes towards eating.

Also i believe (ie. Have read all over the place) that when your boob feels empty it is still making lots of milk, and this is infact more nutritious and creamy than the more watery stuff that comes out of a full boob. So keeping your dd going on the same boob for an entire feed will mean she gets the more calorific stuff. Also i believe they get more efficient at getting the milk out so that may explain why the boob feels drained more quickly. Ds definatly spends less time at the boob per feed now, even though there's bigger gaps between feeds and if must have a bigger tummy...? Hope that helps!

thats great swanriver, I shall provisionally remove food=sleep from my "lies damn lies!" list of things I was told about babies

sorry, someone popped round after i started post so may be massive cross posting!

This is an interesting take by Jack Newman who seems to suggest that solids by spoon are preferrable to formula by bottle at this stage.
I would even go so far as to say that 20 weeks is not very early as far as early weaning goes. And considering all you've overcome, you've done so well!
JN does recommend ditching cereal though snd dstsrting with other foods. Good luck!

I weaned both my DD and DS1 at 5 months (so 21 weeks) - although only gave baby rice / organic fruit and veggies before 6 months - because they both seemed hungry just on breast milk and they were waking up in the night again after sleeping through. I don't mind night waking if they go 3/4 hours but once its every 90 mins on an ongoing basis I find it hard to function.

A few points

• even if your boobs feel empty they are making milk
• no such thing as an empty boob
• The best way to boost supply is to fed often and let your baby suck for as long as possible.

That being said I gave DS1 a bottle of hungry baby formula after a breast feed at 10.30pm from 4 months as he was waking up too much in the night and that seemed to solve it, I think my supply was lower in the evenings and unlike DD and DS2 he wasn't prepared to work for his food (by sucking for a long time). Initially I didn't give any other formula though, but found that it affected suppy as within 3 weeks he was taking 10oz at 10.30pm from his bottle - I ended up stopping at 5 months, as he cleared prefered the bottle to me.

don't wean - that completely destroys decent sleep patterns for a while as they get used to pooting.

other commentators are right about boobs feeling normal at this stage but - it just means they're more efficient, not failing to deliver.

(however I reckon it's this feeling of emptiness that is responsible for the early weaning of the past)

Just feed a lot more!

have only had a quick read of newman article mentioned above but if seems to say only wean early if weight gain is slow and this is not corrected by altering latch etc. I don't think this is the case with op's dd.

That's fascinating that article for breastfeeding mothers, because it is exactly what I did at 21 weeks put the formula in the food rather than in the bottle, whereas now looking back it seemed counterintuitive that I didn't just give an extra bottle.

Presumably he's saying that if a baby wants to suck it will go off the breast quickly if the milk is provided in a bottle, and that if you want to continue breastfeeding you need to give extra solids rather than extra bottles, if other means of increasing breastmilk supply don't work.

I think that as the OP's DD is 20 weeks, not 12 (for example) and she has mentioned that she's had supply challenges that it is a relevant article and possibly a good approach for her to take.

Not trying to be funny greenbeans but the article does say only wean early (ie 20 weeks) if weight gain is slow, which does not fit the ops description, at least a my reading of it. Also it says that early weaning should be a last resort after increasing milk intake. As far as i can tell the op is not at this point yet, though i may be wrong.

I'm not trying to be funny either moonfacemama, but if the op is going to increase her dd's overall intake by giving more formula by bottle, then I am merely suggesting that she have a look at this article by a bf expert. Perhaps the op actually needs to do nothing at all and this will all settle down on it's own. Hopefully that will be the case. I was just making a suggestion. It seems that the op has struggled a lot with breastfeeding and supply and perhaps, just perhaps early weaning would not be the worst thing to do in this case.

OP, how are you getting on?

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Went along to bfeeding group and had a chat with them and decided to let her play with some baby rice on wednesday evening. She didn't eat much and it was fun to do but haven't given her any since for two reasons- one she is feeding loads because of the heat and doesn't seem as grumpy. On Wednesday she had more formula as I was working but thursday she only has her night time bottle formula and was fine. She is still waking up a lot more than she used to but I got 3hours last night- yippee!

She hasn't actually poo-ed now since last thursday (8days) so am not giving her any more solids until poomageddon. Am giving her cool boiled water though too as maybe it was thirst rather than hunger.

So will hold off on proper weaning for a bit longer methinks.