Feeding on demand, but not demanding enough?

[gaelicsheep]

Hi there. I have a feeling this is going to be the first of a good few requests for advice as I so want to get this right this time around.

My DD is 3 days and my milk has come in leaving my breasts really full. I'm pretty confident that she's feeding enough for her - as there are wet and dirty nappies and she's contented. Although today she's only had four feeds (may become five) in 24 hours. Is that really enough? I am encouraging her to feed whenever possible, but if she's not hungry she point blank refuses.

But although she seems happy, I'm not sure if she's feeding enough for me, in terms of easing engorgement/preventing infection, and I'm not sure how to handle it. What should I do regarding the uber full breasts? If she is taking enough for her, would expressing to "relieve the pressure" just exacerbate the problem?

TIA.

gaelicsheep - where's the midwife in all this? It should help to ask her. She can check your breasts and the baby, too.

If you keep your baby close to you, skin to skin, she will feed as often as she needs and this is likely to be very often. It's not so much 'encouraging' her to feed as making it possible for her to do so at any time

Hi tiktok - thanks for responding! As it happens today was the day the MW wasn't coming because, as a second time mum, I am apparently coping well (hope she's right!). Hence last night's slight panic. I'm seeing her again tomorrow, but DD has fed a lot more today and breasts are much more comfortable so I'm thinking yesterday was a blip. I've done loads of skin to skin today, and managed to get her to feed whilst out shopping so I think things are settling a little.

One thing though - any tips on dealing with hands? DD is nowhere near as bad as DS was, but she still flails her hands around meaning I can't see to latch her properly. I'm needing DH's help to latch her on just now as if I swaddle her she goes mental! I'm a little nervous as my nipples are a little cracked and sore from too much sucking in a poor position the first night. Is she maybe picking up on that?

Re-reading your post you seem to be talking about me and the baby being close and skin to skin for much of the day? Not sure how that would work really - I'm not sure DH or DS would appreciate it too much. Physically I'm really well and I just want things to get back to normal ASAP if I'm honest. Please tell me I can get breastfeeding established OK and still maintain some normality in the home, or am I expecting too much of myself? Surely women in the past couldn't just retire to bed for a week or two?!

GS - I don't know the answer, but bumping this for you (despite the time).

Don't panic. Hate to echo so many MNers, but have you got a good sling? Also, a day or two of babymoon wouldn't hurt

I think it's too early to want things to get back to normal. Is your husband taking paternity leave? He should be doing the shopping, taking care of your DS so you can have some rest and spend some time with your DD. I don't know how women coped in the past. Surely they had some help or stayed with their mums for a while.

and yes, they retired for a week or so. Hospital stays were much longer than these days.

I didn't breastfeed I formula fed, but dd1 hardly ever demanded for the first week or so. The HV came round and it had something to do with her tongue being in the wrong place when she was trying to feed.

She was hardly getting any milk so had just become used to feeling hungry . She too was having wet and dirty nappies, just not many. But being my first baby I didn't realise that it wasn't many.

I was told to feed every three hours, regardless of demand and shown how to get her tongue in the right place.

The advise is probably different for BF babies, but I second whoever said to contact the MW/HV.

When I considered BF dd2 DH was told by the MW (who had the measure of him down v well) that I was to do nothing but sit in the chair/bed with the baby for at least a week, until feeding had established. Anything more strenuous/time consuming than making a cuppa or changing the TV channel and he was to do it. So I agree it is far too early to 'get back to normal'

GS no advice to give I'm afraid as BF went dreadfully with DD and I'm hoping it will go better with this baby.

However I wanted to say a HUGE congrats

"She was hardly getting any milk so had just become used to feeling hungry" that's heartbreaking shiny

Congratulations OP It sounds like your supply is catching up - it's normal to be engorged when your milk comes in.
re the hands - can you kind of pin her bottom hand down with the arm (yours) that's supporting her and then use your other hand to deal with her top one? Or do you need that one for latching?

gaelicsheep - hope the midwife brings you lots of good ideas and support

About the staying close and skin to skin: please ask the midwife about this. If she is any good she will share with you the importance of responding to your newborn's needs like this. Your DS can still be cuddled and cared for and if he is old enough he can understand a little bit about babies and what they need while they are small. I am not sure how your DH could object - he's a big person and can accept it, I would have thought

Keeping the baby close and skin to skin helps enormously with the practical side of positioning the baby - feeds become much less of a production number with the baby getting in a state and waving arms around with impatience. The baby is ready to pop on as soon as he shows early feeding cues

Not sure what the issue is with not staying close....can you say more?

Thanks all. Well the good news is that DD was weighed today at 5 days old and she's actually put on 3 oz from her birth weight already, so we must be doing something right.

Tiktok - I just don't get this all day skin to skin thing where she can feed whenever she wants. She really hasn't a clue yet and left to her own devices, without me physically attaching her, she'd just suck on my nipple until it was red raw. Again, if I just let her "feed" whenever she wants she would do nothing else as she wants to comfort suck all the time, especially in the evening. She's definitely not hungry when she does this as she doesn't swallow anything and a finger does just as well - except then you don't even have one free hand! I don't really understand why I can't just wait for hunger cues and try to at least do something else than lie in bed all day.

The only thing that makes feeding really difficult when she displays hunger cues is perpetually striving for a completely perfect latch, as the MW says I should be doing. This really really stresses us both out - she gets cross with me taking her off, I get cross that she starts to fight me and the whole thing turns into a nightmare. Plus she has such a strong suck that it really really hurts when I break the seal - I can barely get a finger in there - and I'm sure that could cause more damage/pain than just leaving her on there to do what she does.

I am finding I am much less stressed if I accept a slightly less than ideal latch - not nipple feeding though! - with the mild discomfort that goes with it. I'm thinking I need to go with "good enough" rather than "perfect" and hope it gets better as she gets bigger, but I know people are going to tell me I'm wrong to take that approach.

I guess it's obvious that I find breastfeeding very very frustrating. DD is well on her way to being just as much of a little fighter as her brother was. The difference is that she, unlike him, doesn't have tongue tie so at least when I do finally latch her I do not spend the entire feed in agonising pain.

DH is already getting very frustrated with the whole thing. He's a SAHD anyway and is doing absolutely tons, don't get me wrong, and he'll support me but I know he wants me back to normal ASAP. I'm not sure we can survive 6 weeks plus of me feeding and doing absolutely nothing else. I felt exactly the same frustrations in my pregnancy - I guess I'm just not a natural earth mother type unfortunately.

Anyhow thanks again for all the advice and giving me the chance to vent a bit. It looks like things are going in the right direction at the moment, despite my shortcomings in the patience department.

My God, sorry for that absolutely mammoth post!

congrats gsheep on the birth of your LO. I have to say i was never into the stay in bed all day skin to skin thing. I have a DS and a house to run and it would have drove me insane tbh. I fed DD on demand from birth and sometimes this was every 2 hrs (when i was lucky) and every 30 mins other days. The first 8 weeks were tough but DD is now 31 weeks and i'm still feeding her on demand, again some days more often than others. You quickly work out when your baby needs feeding or just a cuddle and your little finger.

Gaelicsheep i am pretty new to this breastfeeding business too so i don't claim to know too much but i do think that if your baby wants to comfort suck you need to let her as this is what helps your milk to come in. I know it can be frustrating but its also lovely to have your baby so close to you and don't worry about what your dp thinks, at the moment you are who your baby needs for comfort as you are the one who she can recognise from your smell and voice.
You say she gets cross when you take her off, but cross isn't an emotion she has yet. She will just be getting upset because she wants to be close to you and be comforted.
Just hold your tiny baby as close as you can, she needs you!
Sorry if i sound bossy or like a know it all, these are just a few things it really helped me to realise.

gsheep - great news about the weight

I am still not sure about your objections to keeping the baby close - it's normal and good that babies want to do this a lot, and it's not necessarily for hunger only. She is still so new - your voice and your touch and your smell are familiar to her, in a world that is not (yet) familiar to her. Babies breastfeed to make a connection with you, to give and receive love - it's not just about filling their tums!

I didnt suggest you have to lie in bed all day doing this - though there is nothing wrong with this, either

You say 'she wants to comfort suck all the time especially in the evening'? She's only had 4-5 evenings - too soon for a rigid pattern to emerge. Comfort sucking is fine and as you and she go on you will find your own way(s) to keep you both happy - but at the moment, she's a little too young to learn about compromising...but she will do, in time

Whatever. The fact she is already over her birthweight shows she is getting sufficient milk and is doing well - it sounds as if you are doing ok with the latch, as long as your nipples dont get damaged.

Hunger cues are sometimes small, subtle and quiet -

Hi again. Think I was having a bad day yesterday.

HotSprocket - to clarify, when I was talking about "taking her off" I was meaning if I was to keep trying to "perfect the latch". I didn't mean I take her off the breast before she's ready to finish herself.

Again to clarify, I don't have any objection at all to keeping her close for lots of the day, and we have tons of cuddles all the time! But I do find her sucking is making me sore - not my nipples, which are healing well from the initial cracks, but the whole area around. Feel free to tell me otherwise, but I'm figuring this is because she has such a strong suck - no position seems to make this any better. So while some comfort sucking is great and I'd never stop her, if it's just making me more and more sore then that must be counter productive?

Just thought I'd post a wee update. DD was weighed again yesterday at 10 days old and she's put on another 7 oz - that's 10oz in total from her birth weight. The HV was very impressed!

I think because everything went so so wrong the first time around I've been finding problems where there perhaps aren't any. I've had a couple of really bad nights where I've convinced myself that feeding will be really painful (memories of the first time coming back) and ended up being almost too scared to latch her on. But I think there's an upward trend and although she's still a little barracuda it definitely is not as uncomfortable as it was the first few days.

Thanks for the advice anyhow - hopefully things are on an upward trend from hereon in.

That's good news

Hope you gain in confidence and enjoyment!