16 week old constant night wakings - not hunger?

[Murtola]

My daughter is 16 weeks old and fully b/f from birth. I totally appreciate that babies of this age do not sleep through the night yet, however she wakes constantly throughout the night (from every 45mins to 1.5hrs). I will feed her but alot of the time she doesn't want a feed, and I put the dummy in and shush/pat her to get her back to sleep.
We have been seeing a Cranial osteopath as she has a tight diaphragm but I thought she would have grown out of this problem by now. I think it might be wind that wakes her but at night when I feed her she is in such a deep sleep I can't get any wind up - but she subsequently writhes around the rest of the night. I am eating a very plain diet (no citrus/fizzy/caffeine etc). She doesn't poo that often (once a day)?
Does anyone have any thoughts on what could be waking her or how I can improve the sleep stretches?
Thank you x

Does she actually start crying or just fussing?
My dd (8 wks) wakes up alot and had a little bit of a fuss and wriggle around. I used to pick her up as soon as she moved which meant neither of us were getting much sleep. I started leaving her (not if she was crying obv) and she will put herself back to sleep after about 15 min.
Other than that have you tried white noise? It calms my baby down and seems to keep her asleep for longer. Its a bit annoying for the parents, but you do get used to it.

Thanks Hotsprocket. I think most of the time she starts to fuss and I go to her before it gets any further - probaly selfishly as I know that I can get her back to lseep quickly before she fully wakes up, but also because we have a two year old and I don't want her to take him. Perhaps I'll try tonight and see what happens. Often I think her dummy falls out and it wakes her, but it also soothes her back to sleep. I really don't want to be using a dummy but it helps.

ALL babies wake up every 45 mins during the night. That is how long a babies sleep cycle is. However ideally they can settle themselves - sometimes they might just stir and fall right into the next cycle other times they will fuss. If they are hungry they will cry for food.

It sounds as if she doesn't know how to settle herself when she comes out of a sleep cycle. Because you go in as soon as she fusses she is now dependent on you to settle herself. No real answers, as I can see you don't want your 2 year old awake.

My DS2 is 8 weeks (EBF) and can generally manage a 6 hour stretch at night - this morning I heard him fuss at 6am (he is in his own room, he'd been fed at 1.30am) but I waited and he went back to sleep before he started crying, and I woke him at 7.30am. Other times he doesn't settle himself and I feed him.

Thanks MumNWLdn. I do fear that I have made her dependent on me to get her back to sleep - do you think I should start to leave her and see if she will settle herself?

Because of your concerns re: noise in the night, maybe work on day time sleep first - how does she get to sleep in the day? Can you put her awake into her cot and let her fall asleep? Does she sleep for more than 45 mins at a time in the day?

At night, perhaps wait to see if she'll settle herself, intervening before full blown crying?

Day time sleep is similar, she is mostly in her moses downstairs and will go for 30-45 mins in the morning, however at lunch when I try and encourage a longer lunch nap to coincide with her brother (so I can rest too having been up all night!) it is a similar story, in that she stirs and I sooth her back. Once asleep she will then go for awhile, but she only cat naps in the afternoon. I am trying to encourage the day time naps but its hard as she doesn't sleep for long. If really tired I can put her in her moses awake with her dummy in and she will fall asleep. I think I need to tackle this now don't I as I think I've made a rod for me own back.

Mmm there's a bad sleep regression phase at 4/5 months. So many babies at this age only nap for 45 minutes at a time although grow out of it.

You say she writhes in the night. My DS did this and we thought it was wind. Does it get worse as the night goes on? It actually turned out he had silent reflux (basically heartburn). So we got him onto medication (ranitidine) and it stopped the writhing. I also cut out dairy which stopped his wind.

Symptoms of silent reflux - writhing around, wet burps, arching during feeds.

Speak to your GP and see if you can get medication - infant gaviscon is usually what they prescribe first. If that doesn't work, ranitidine was great in our case.

Once we'd sorted his meds, we worked on stretching him out between feeds and put his cot on a slope. He started to go longer stretches although at 8 months is yet to sleep through!

HTH

I think you know what to do!

Start with putting her down for her nap while she is awake, for her short sleep and let her learn how to fall asleep without your help. Once she can do that then night time should be easier.

Agree with other poster - she might not be able to settle herself as she is uncomfortable with wind. DS2 very windy, have to wind him for ages after each feed or he is uncomfortable.

Sorry to contradict but I found teaching DS to fall asleep for the night himself was far easier than teaching him to do it for naps (as he fights his naps as the world is interesting). Once we cracked that, he is more likely to self settle for naps although he doesn't always

Although you say she can self settle with a dummy?

But to be honest, I'm not convinced the self settling thing makes a huge difference WRT to long stretches at night as my DS used to do 5 hours sometimes before he hit the 4 month sleep regression phase and before he could self settle!

Thanks both. Igglybuff I don't think its a sleep regression as she's never slept well since birth really, but we were getting a few hour 3-4 long stretches and now its got worse.

Last night I went with waiting a few minutes, then if she didn't settle I would put her dummy in and leave, rather than stand and shush her. Every time (4ish?) she got herself off to sleep with the dummy. Today I have put her down awake with dummy in and she has got herself off to sleep, so I am pleased and will continue - especially at night, however I worry that she needs the dummy to get herself off. Any thoughts?

Thanks so much for the advice so far x

Should have added I can never get wind out of her at night - its seems more trumps that she struggles with as in the early hours when she is in her light sleep she trumps away/

Murtola I wouldn't worry about the dummy - if it works, then great. You can wean her off it once she's a bit older. It'll be easier if you only use it for sleep and not in the days? We used a dummy sometimes in the early months but not any more. We just stopped giving it to DS and he was fine.

You could also try removing just as she falls asleep, then gradually doing it when she's drifting off, then drowsy to wean off that way. Might take a couple of weeks.

Our DS was really windy as well as the reflux. To tackle the wind, we used to do tummy time before he had his bath for 15 mins or so. This helped to get the wind out as he used to trump as he moved around. Also I used to pump his legs and gently push his thighs against his tummy from underneath (does that make sense??) and that used to help get bum wind out in the nights. I'd do that when he woke up and I thought he had wind (as when I picked him up, he'd kick out). It was usually in the early hours of the morning and if I could get any out then he'd sleep a bit better. Another thing I did was very gently rub his tummy around the belly button in a clockwise direction.

Also what are her poos like? Green or yellow? If green, she might be getting too much foremilk which can make her gassy. To solve, only feed from one breast per feed. If you already do that then don't switch breasts each feed - do it every other one.

I do just use it for sleep, she doesn't have it at all in the day other than for naps. Will definitely try and wean her off as and when she is sleeping better - it just helps at the moment. How old is your DS?

After a feed at night I sit her up and tummy rub, leg pump etc but nothing comes. So frustrating! As and when she does a poo/big trump at night it settles her straight away.

I only ever give her one boob, she feeds very well & efficiently. Poos are generally dark brown.

'Friends' have suggested I give up B/F as it could be causing her wind problems but I am being so careful with what I eat and I don't think I eat enough of anything to upset her - i.e. I don't drink tea/coffee anyway, only dairy I have is milk on cereal, small bit of cheese etc.

I wish there was an answer but I think it is just a case of time.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply - it has really helped.

My DS is 8 months, nearly 9. We suffered hell for many months as he slept so badly after about 12 weeks old. My DS had to take time off work to help me in the day as I was really struggling at one point

With the leg pumping etc it doesn't always work at first - can take a few goes and sometimes some moves work better than others! You do have to push the legs agains the tummy quite hard (not hurting obviously). Here is a video with techniques I used to use!

With dairy - you really need to cut out all the obvious sources for a few weeks to see any difference as it doesn't take much to cause problems in some babies. I did a trial for a couple of weeks (no milk, cheese, yoghurt etc) and noticed an improvement so kept it up.

Ignore your 'friends' - you're doing the best you can for your DD! I look back and think of the times I nearly quit and now I'm so glad I didn't (especially as I can't give dairy to my DS now I'm weaning as it makes him sick )

I promise you though it will get better although it doesn't seem like it at the time. Is your DH able to help at night? Perhaps he can do some of the settling with the dummy to give you a chance to get some sleep.

My son (28 months) was the same but grew out of it at 10 weeks and slept through at 11 weeks - I think sometimes that is why it is so hard as she is so different and her sleep is so poor. She is so happy & content in the day and such a terror at night!
My H is going a 'shift' - I go to bed soon (after she stirs the first time) and he will stay up/sleep in her room until she needs a feed - so I am getting some rest before I take over. I just feel that I am 'surviving' and not living, my H & I pass in the night and I am just tired and obsessed with sleep. I know it will pass but i wish someone could tell me when! Thanks for the video link, I''ll take a look now x

Slept through at 11 weeks

Luckily DS is my first so I've never had it good I'm still waiting!

Yes we had the same thing - passing in the hallway as we swapped shifts and hardly living. I used to go straight to bed after dinner and have an ovaltine to give me energy.

We saw an improvement at about 4 months - we put DS to bed earlier one night (about half 6) which meant we got a longer stretch at the start of the night and unsettled afterwards, as opposed to unsettled all night. We had been putting him to bed at 7/8pm. I'm quite sad - I keep notes so just had a read to check!!!

It wasn't plain sailing - we still had (and have) bad nights but the number of good nights improved.

Funny re the notes - I'm the same, I have an A4 pad and since birth I have written down her sleep pattern - including each time I go in at night - sad hey! But that way I can see improvements/positives etc.

I know, 11 weeks. And he still sleeps really well now, thank goodness! They say you get one good baby and one bad - my son was very high needs in the day as a baby and an angel at night, and my daughter is the other way!

I believe that she wants to sleep, she just stirred and cried and went back to sleep immediately with the dummy, so I have a glimmer of hope that she wants to be asleep, just something is waking her up.

Yes def worth doing to see the patterns otherwise I thought it was never ending hell...!

Well I hope our next one is a dream at night. DS is lovely in the day though so I always forgive him.

Could she be a bit overtired? How are her naps? I found DS very unsettled if he didn't get enough sleep in the day - he's still like that now.