cracked, bleeding scabbed nipples, feeding is becoming impossible but really don't want to FF but feel i might have to:(.

[bamboobutton]

title pretty much says it all.

5 day old, tiny 6lb dd won't open her mouth wide enough to properly latch onto my F cup boobs and has destroyed my nipples by kind of sucking her way on to latch. her mouth when it is latched on can only take in my nipple and about 1cm of areola.

both nipples are badly cracked and covered in scabs with new flesh peeling off, breasts are really engorged from milk coming in so areola is really hard making latching more painful. each feed is spent with me screaming in pain and crying in dread at the thought of the next feed.

don't want to stop and FF instead so what are the other options?

i have to stop BFing to let my nipples heal.

will bottle feeding EBM for a few days ruin BFing?
what if i can't express, will FF for a few days make my milk dry up?

please help

Oh poor, poor you. Have you got nipple shields? GET SOME NOW - go to the chemist or get someone to go for you. They are little silicon things that fit over your nipple with holes for the baby to suck through. They aren't recommended for forever use but they got me through this period (I never appreciated what toe-curling agony was until I saw my toes clenching whilst I was gasping "aaaaarrrgh" and crying during feeds). I found once the first few minutes of a feed were over it wasn't so bad when the baby settled down to feed.

I know you don't want to hear this but you have to keep stimulating your boobs at this early stage to get your milk in properly and I think FF should be the absolute last resort. Have you tried expressing, can you do this without causing further pain? Can you hand express, that should be less painful?

Okie doke- firstly what pump do you have? A hospital grade breast pump is your best bet if you are going to pump instead of feed for a little bit. You can hire them from the NCT and they are MAGIC.

Secondly, get thee to a breastfeeding clinic where someone can observe a feed- is a total nightmare but you can't let her latch on by sucking onto a feed- constantly stroke your nipple down her nose until she does the wide open mouth and move your nipple away if she tries to latch without her mouth being open enough (it takes time but she will learn), it may help to pump a bit before a feed to soften the breast a little and pull the nipple out further for easier latching.

Thirdly- take paracetamol/ibupofen 30mins before a feed and feed her from least painful side first.

Fourthly- enough lasinoh to sink a ship before and after a feed, if the nips don't start to heal in a couple of days get thee asap to a doc as you may have an infection,

Fifthly- try nipple shields while they heal. Avent medium size are very good. (be aware can reduce milk supply if used long term)

Hope that helps! (I am 18weeks into bfeeding after a hellish start and nips that are only just healing now! But it does get easier if you can get through this excruciating bit! promise!)

Oh gosh - this sounds like you are at the end of your tether.

I had this with my ds at points. The only way I coped was by expressing milk for him - he still breastfed but was also okay with the bottles. Am not sure where the information from midwifes comes from not to do both - my experience was that it was fine.

When breasts were so engored with milk, the only way I could deal with them (!) was to get in the bath and after putting a warm flannel on them, hand expressing milk into the bath to get them down a bit, then ds could latch on.

Try expressing before you dispair and see how you get on.

Could you try one of those nipple sheild things? I have never used but i think they are for very sore nipples.

Is there a breast feeding support group by you? Ask your midwife.

Sorry couldn't be of more help. Hope that it sorts out soon.

i am already slathered in lanisoh.
i've looked for councellors in my area but we are pretty rural and i can't find any in my county.
tried following every video and picture instructions i can find but feeding is still very painful whichever position i try, i really need someone to show me and midwives here are useless.

tried hand expressing but nipple and areola really is too painful to touch, even my loose cotton shirt touching it is agony, im baulking at spending £80 on a pump in case its too sore to have touching me.

dd has had a bottle of formula she woke up and i couldn't bare to have her on and she was screaming, she had only had a few gulps of bm at dawn before i had to take her off.

You poor poor thing- I remember the agony well and remember wanting to throw DD across the room, away from my poor nips, when she hurt me. There is nothing worse

www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/shop/hire-services/breast-pump-hire

Hire is £44 for 30days including milk collection sets- would that be an option? I have a couple of rubber diaphragmatic that you can fit over the collection flanges which make it alot softer if your nips are sore. I would be happy to post them too you if that would help?

Unfortunately feeding will be painful until they heal, but nipple shields and saline dips (see here can help them heal faster, and painkillers can help with the pain of latching on. Stay topless as much as possible if clothes hurt too much, or get some jelonet (from pharmacy) and breast pads and hold in place with a bra between feeds as it is probably the movement of the shirt against your poor nips causing the pain.

Try NCT www.nctpregnancyandbabycare.com/in-your-area to find a local breastfeeding counsellor.

Giving a little bit of formula need not spell the end of breastfeeding at this stage so long as you are regularly pumping (at least 10 times a day) but if you are not removing the milk you are not signaling to the boobs to make more milk. (MY dd was mixed fed from birth pretty much due to being tube fed, tongue tied, flat nips and breast reduction, but with a lot of determination I got her up to being predominantly breastfed- she now just has a bottle of formula before bed.)

I know you must be really torn about giving up and protecting your poor agonising boobs but honestly try and stick with it if you can, because if you can get through this horrible bit it will become a doddle- max out the painkillers (paracetamol and ibupfoen can be taken alternately every 2 hours (so still four hour gap between them) as they work on different pain pathways.

I feel for you!

I've had two 5lb babies, painful and frequent feeding at first. Really really sympathise. We were able to get hold of syringes and was able to give expressed breast milk that way in the beginning to not to run the gauntlet of "nipple confusion".

The only way to remove the pain of engorged breasts is to keep emptying them, I'm afraid.

BTW, in regards to the suggestion you take iburprofen, I'm under the impression that this is not possible when breastfeeding. Check the paperwork.

I lived in a rural location with my first and felt very lonely. Extra hard at the beginning with the whole shock of having a baby and the lack of sleep. Seek all the help you can get. If midwifes crap, try health visitor: you will be transfered over to them very shortly anyway, but you could call the GPs and get hold of them asap.

Do try and stick with it for a couple of more days to see if improves, but that the end of the day if its not for you guys IT IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. Plenty of kids are formula fed and grow up to be healthy, well adjusted people.

I had exactly the same thing with dc3 - a shock after no real problems with the first two. Exactly as you describe, bleeding both sides and all because dc wouldn't open mouth wide enough.

It did work out! I re-read, re-watched all books and vids I had and was really careful how I positioned dc, aiming nipple at the roof of her mouth (if I remember right). If you can't find a Bf counsellor then can't your midwife, or a midwife at the hospital or a Health Visitor help? Many do have a lot of expertise.

Personally I wouldn't use sheilds or anything like that as they could interfere further IMHO.

And, in my experience, Avent hand pumps are by far the best (by farrrrr) and you could get one off ebay or ask around if anyone has one.

Good luck. I remember how awful it was and how desperate I felt. But I just couldn't cope with the thought of bottles and all the cleaning and being organised involved and perseverance did pay off!

I had exactly the same pain with my little one initially. Do all of the recommendations above.

How about changing the position of the baby when it feeds. Rugby ball hold might be a slighly easier hold. Ask for help, you might have to ring LL or NCT Breastfeeding a couple of times, but ask for someone to help you.

I use cream, I also used to put ice packs at the pain was so bad.

Another thing I did when one got so bad it stung, was to feed the baby on one side for a few feeds and then got expressing on the other side with an electric pump, I then got a few hours relief with the other breast.

I also purchased gauze which I was initially given in hospital to help the healing process.

It isn't nice, but do try and keep up. I went through a few weeks of agony initially but got through it, and now am still happily breastfeeding my little one - who is 1 shortly. So do try and get some help, good luck.

i hear you! i have 4 children, all breast fed for 1st year, i suffered with this, i tried creams, shields, pumps, advice... all of which useless, it felt as if my babies were sucking razor blades out of me, i later discovered i had thrush on my nipples, it may be worth a trip to the docs to make sure this isnt a cause.
the best advice i can give is to make sure your nipples are dry between feeds, try hot flannels n gentle massage to ease engorged breasts, persevere, i know its easier said than done but you n child will benefit in the end, make sure you are relaxed as baby can sense if youre tense, mke sure babys mouth is as wide open as possible, i used to roll the bottom lip as they latched on with little finger n try to get as much of your boob in as you can, which means gently squashing n wriggling while theyre feeding.

i wish you the very best of luck n dont be defeated!

You can take ibuprofen when breastfeeding. It's what I was prescribed on post natal ward.
See here

Oh and if you start using bottles because of potential nipple confusion problems I found that using nipple shields actually helped in that case- because DD found it easier to interchange between nipple and bottle- also if you get breastflow bottles it means bub has to work a bit harder and do "compress then suck" like they do at breast rather than just suck. otherwise your baby may end up prefering the bottle and even if your nips have healed you won't be able to get her back on the breast.

hi bamboo, sorry you're suffering, i remember those early days well - my breast was bigger than the baby's head and it was so hard trying to get a proper latch. i used a technique similar to this - do try it, it's very effective at getting them on to the breast properly.

and second thandeka on iburprofen - it's fine when bf.

good luck.

just to say I have been where you are now with ds2 but did get through it in the end and he is still bfing at 15 months now - just wanted you to know it is possible to get through it even though it can feel awful at the time

follow the suggestions above - they're all good

sorry i posted an ran, ive been faffing digging out all my old sterilising stuff and getting that cleaned.

midwife came round earlier and it was the lovely one i had once when regular midwife was on hols. she has arranged for me to hire a hospital grade electric pump which i can collect tommorrow, £7 to hire it which is loads better that £80!

she seemed to think that a few days of pumping and mixed feeding (if i can bear to have the pump on my nipple) shouldn't effect BFing so i could have dd back on the breast by the weekend. she also pointed me in the direction of a BFing cafe which i couldn't find online which can help with latching problems.
she had a look at my nips and there is no thrush, just lots of damage from dds hard little gums.
Thank god it was this midwife that came today feeling alot better now.

thanks for all your advice everyone.

I had same when DD was a week old. Agony..... I expressed with a hospital pump every feed for a week - only way they would heal. Make sure to get a double pump as halves the time you have to spend pumping and you get more milk out overall if you are pumping and collecting from both simultaneously. DD took the expressed (DH was very handy as I stayed one feed ahead and he fed the last expressed while I pumped more, so I didn't have to pump and feed it as well.) After a week it was bearable again but continued to be painful for the start of each feed until she was 6 weeks, then dead easy for a year It worked out fine but I was damn well determined to BF, I think if I wasn't I would have thrown in the towel....

And I will never forget being in hospital, looking down and seeing DD with (my) blood running out of her mouth and all down her.

Next time I will come back as a man!

Yes I had this too with my 6wo. I exclusively exprssed for 3 days or so, and allowed nipples to heal (lots of lansinoh and jelonet dressing). No problems now... nipples havo obviously toughened up.
This was my 3rd baby and had not suffered with this before....
Oh and I also got a BF counsellor to come see us; our latch was fine - but she advised me re regular expressing.
Which part of the country are you in? you could call local nct group and ask if there is a bf counsellor around, or maybe even speak to a bf counsellor on the phone. If you tell me where you are, I can try to help you find one.
Good luck.

Just to say I had this too, got to the point where I was crying through feeds and thought I was going to be sick from the raw pain, I couldn't imagine it would get better - then my MW showed me the rugby ball hold and things really improved. I feel for you - you will get through it, though, and well done for being so committed, you are doing a brilliant job! xx