hunger or wind ?

[pumpkin2]

my 4 week old is suffering a lot from wind - I'm going to try some of the suggestions listed here! - and I'm getting confused as to whether he wants feeding sometimes or is just windy - any ideas how to tell? I have read if they will be satisfied with a dummy they aren't really hungry - my HV said if ds doesn't feed for long, he obviously wasn't hungry - but its a bit late by then! Am primarily worried about making the wind worse by frequent feeding.....

Ah my story entirely. If your DS is pulling his legs up to his chest amd whining then it is gripe. If there are periods when he isn't doing this between his gripe and ism't rooting then he probably isn't hungry. You just need to work through it with him, try some different winding positions, try and distract him with songs , lights, sounds etc..., try turning the dryer or vacumn cleaner on ( white noise really works !! ), go for a walk with him in a sling. I do all the above and give my DS2 Infacol for his wind.

Of course if this has been going on for an hour or so he misght well be tired and start crying because hes tired.

It is very difficult especially if you are breastfeeding - you don't know if he has eaten enough. Åt least when my 6 week old has swallowed 5 oz of formula I know it is not hunger.

Definitely try and keep a check on his feeds - how often does he feed, keep a record and that might help you determine when he is really hungry.

Hope that is some help - any more specific questions please ask as I am going through exactly the same experience.

PS: They do grow out of it, I keep reminding myself !!

Thanks Kaz - he has been really unsettled the last few days, do you think that has anything to do with this hot weather currently ?
How long before they grow out of it ???!!

My ds got a little bloated round the middle when he was windy.

I feel around his waist at the side, just under his ribcage. If it's kind of tight or firm, there's a huge burp in there, if it's squashy then he's ok. Just don't squash too hard

Assume he'll need a burp after every feed and be patient until he has burped before lying him flat.

could be the weather as my ds2 has losi it a bit, with seeminly endless gripe after each feed - aaaaaaaaargh.

Can't really remember when DS1 grew out of it, probably about 12 weeks - yo really just have to take it a day at a time !!!!

My dd could fart for England! I find a good soothing position is to lay them on your hand and rub the back - you can feel the bubbles in the stomach - I seem to remember that at 4 weeks she's either be soothed (wind) or root madly(hungry) - now she always gives the rooting a try!

In the evenings and even possibly in the mornings they can cluster feed a lot and I found I really wasn't prepared for that, it does mean they shoyuld be able to go for longer in the night (ha ha). If h'es bobbing on and off the breast it's probably wind

It's hard work isn't it - but he'll be smiling soon

Thanks all - I was wondering if this is normal wind or whether he could be suffering from reflux ? He doesn't posset that much - but does seem happier to be held upright rather than laid flat, makes strange squealing noises and throws his arms & legs about whilst feeding, pulls himself off the breast then immediately cries to go back on, coughs and occasionally seems as though he is struggling for breath - is this all normal ?

It is normal behaiour pumpkin. He sounds as though he is being swamped a little bit by the letdown of milk. When he does that, take him off, sit him up and wind him, then put him back on. For really windy, B/F babies it is sometimes better just to feed from one side at a time. By that I mean let him feed and come off himself. Wind him, then offer him the same side again instead of switching. Next feed do the same on the other breast. That means he will get more hind milk which is more satisfying and less colic producing that foremilk. HTH.

Thanks Mears - can I ask what is probably another stupid q - when do you know to swop sides during one feed - as sometimes, not always, DS wants to feed for up to an hour and I'm worried he might not be getting enough ?
Thanks

Watch the way that he sucks and listen. When he first goes on he will suck rapidly waiting for the let down of milk. When that happens he will slow down and take deep rhyhmical sucks where you will be able to hear him swallowing the milk. He will pause every so often because the milk comes down in jets with spaces in between. Towards the end of the feed, he will start to make 'flutter' sucks which are not deep and are a faster than the ones before. He will keep stopping and starting. He will be getting small amounts of hind milk at this stage and is stimluating the breast to produce more milk at future feeds. However, you can take him off at this point if you feel he has been on for ages, because he has probably had enough. Babies should spit the nipple out when they have had enough, but some just like to suck. My ds 1 hardly ever detached himself.
When you have the time you can sit and feed for long periods. However, by watching how they feed you get to know when they are just 'flutter 'sucking rather than feeding.
Watch him closely for a few feeds today and see what his pattern is.

wished someone had told me that 5 yeas ago. Thinjk Mears should have a tv show.."Feeding with Mears"

Thanks codswallop. Isn't it amazing that many women will have fed successfully yet never probably understood how breastfeeding works. I watched a video of a feed that showed all these signs which made me watch my own babies. It is such a fascinating thing to watch

Agree with codswallpo, that was great advice, I feel a lot more confident about feeding now ! Thanks Mears.

One thing the midwife told me with DS1 was that their top lips can go a bit "blue" (not really blue blue but kind of greyish) when they are windy - and I have found that with DS2 - now 10 weeks old. So the idea is if the lip is bluish they're probably a bit windy. Also if when you put them to the breast they fuss around rather than latching on properly - they just want to suck rather than feed. I've got a theory that they can't tell the difference between tummy ache and feeling hungry. They were / are both terribly windy (and breastfed). Infacol really helped both of them. DS2 is slowly getting less windy / easier to wind - so the end should be in sight for you I hope!

I keep putting DS2 back on the same breast until I'm convinced he's drained it. He'll have some, come off so I wind him and then re-offer the same breast until it feels empty - really soft and as if it's empty! If he wants more then he gets the same on the other side.

HTH!

My 2 week old is exactly the same - I was told that hunger and wind feel exactly the same for little babies, so they get easily confused. And as a first time mum, I'm equally confused by her signals! Tried infacol, but it actually seemed to make the wind more uncomfortable for her, so am hoping that the HV's advice that babies' digestion improves naturally over time will prove right. Lucy always worse during night - probably because everything seems worse at 3am! Looking forward to more than 3 hours (I wish) sleep.

Susannah, just a quick update - he's now 6 1/2 weeks old, and it does seem to be getting easier for him to bring his wind up and he is less bothered by it. Tips I read on Mumsnet that I tried also - drinking a probiotic like Actimel, avoiding too many acidic foods eg loads of OJ - I try to stick to water now. We stuck with the infacol, I think it helps - but with all these things, its hard to tell what is getting better just because he is getting older and as you say his digestion is improving ! Fingers crossed your dd will also soon find this!!!!

Pumpkin - Thanks for tips. Will definitely try the actimel and it may be time to give infacol another go! Anything's worth a try. My HV suggested cranial osteopathy as a possibility. Anyone got any experiences?

Susannah, we took DS to cranial osteo when he was two weeks old - he was a ventouse delivery which the midwife suggested might have contributed to any problems plus I had read an article about it in Junior pregnancy and baby and was quite keen to give it a try. We are due to go for his second appointment next week, and the osteo suggested that is all he will need. Hard to say if it had any impact but worth a try I would say - the osteo certainly seemed to be doing something, though the treatment is incredibly gentle and didn't distress him at all, and for the sake of £35, I was happy to give it a go ! The osteo we used was in Reigate and experienced with small babies, I would recommend her - she even had me feeding DS while she was treating him because he was hungry and fretful - very empathetic lady ! Let me know if you are anywhere near there and want more details.
By the way , sometimes (though rarely now) I find gripe water works if nothing else will and seems to help him settle. Think you should probably check with your midwife / HV before using tho as it isn't recommended for babies under 1 month (though we used it at four days on the advice of my midwife !) and my HV mentioned something about it could lead to dehydration, though probably only if used eg after every feed.
A tip from a friend of mine is if you think they are windy but nothing is coming up, sometimes a change of position - eg going up and down stairs, handing your baby to your DH or DP, can help dislodge the wind. HTH

I have used a cranial oestopath with both my boys, who both had difficult deliveries. The first time it definitely worked with his colic, not so sure the second time. But i concur definitely worth a go and won't do them any harm.

Thanks Kaz & Pumpkin

I live in Bromley and have been recommended a local practitioner. Think will give it a go. I've noticed that passing her to someone else, or carrying her over shoulder downstairs, or even just laying her on her stomach sometimes helps. And DH seems to have the magic touch, as do doting grandmothers, when it comes to shifting the wind!

Thanks Kaz & Pumpkin

I live in Bromley and have been recommended a local practitioner. Think will give it a go. I've noticed that passing her to someone else, or carrying her over shoulder downstairs, or even just laying her on her stomach sometimes helps. And DH seems to have the magic touch, as do doting grandmothers, when it comes to shifting the wind!