Exclusively Breastfed Baby - Is she starving?

[DoninhaPrincesa]

Hi. Im a new menber and I really need some advice. Sorry for the long post but Im a bit upset.

Ive been breastfeeding my baby girl since the very first day, she is now 16 weeks(tomorrow).
We both struggled quite a lot in the first week and had lots of help and support from the midwives and despite our slow start its been going really well, she's been putting on weight, slowely but surely and growing well. Certainly noone has shown any concernes.
I meant to go to the clinic yesterday to check her weight as I havent been for a while but this all started and I was exhausted and didnt get there in time, considering calling the HV to come and check on us. She has always been small, long but slim, and the HV was happy with her wieght gain.

Right the problem....
She has always been on roughly 3 hourly feeds, but I feed her whenever she wants, if its less than 3 hours then I still offer her a feed, she was sleeping about 6 to 7 hours at night and in the mornings I would be practically bursting with milk, so I would let her feed till she was full on one side and express a little from the other so it didnt think it was not needed. But the last couple of weeks Ive been waking up without any achyness or leaks but I just thought my body was used to the gap at night and carried on as normal.
The last week Baby has started wanting feeding a lot more often, every 1.5-2hours and Ive been following her fine, the first couple of days she was still searching after emptying both breasts so i would let her have a little formula top up to give me a chance to recover some milk for the next feed.
The night before last she woke up at 3am (she went to sleep at 11pm) and was screaming for ages, I fed her, changed her and gave her a cuddle, checked the usual things (too hot, too cold etc) and couldnt find a problem, she eventually fell asleep at 5am, thus leading to a very tired and stressed out day yesterday.

She did the same last night, I fed her at midnight as she woke up when I was going to bed, but she woke up again at 2am crying her little heart out, I did it all again and she was still crying, so while cuddling her I was walking up and down when I realised she was doing her best vampire impression on my neck. I checked my breasts and they were both empty, I couldnt even get a drop out, so I gave her some formula (about 5oz) at 3am, she did a huge burp and fell sound asleep before I even got a sheet over her, she has been asleep perfectly ever since.
I woke up about half hour ago and I can get a few drops going from each side so I will offer her a breastfeed when she wakes up, but Im worried that she isnt getting enough milk. I havent done anything differently apart from having lunch 2 hours later than normal yesterday, and I have been quite stressed out with things at home with my other half so Im not sure if that affecting it, but I feel so guilty and sooooo bad that she might have been hungry all day and not getting enough food.
I dont want to give her formula too often, I want to breastfeed so bad and we overcame all the problems we had at the start, I dont want something to get in the way now.
Im gonna call the HV and try to get a visit for some help with everything as the situation at home is making it really hard to cope at the minute, and feeling like Im not even managing to feed my baby is making me feel a lot worse and Im really not sure how much longer I can cope with everything on my own.

What can I do?

I should mention, in case its not massively obvious that this is my first baby. Im 25 so I like think Im classed as an adult. Im just really struggling to cope at the minute.

Ok, first of all, breasts are never empty. They are always refilling. Just because you can't get anything out by squeezing, doesn't mean nothing is there.

And what is there, when your breasts are at their least full, is the fattiest milk you make. And the more she feeds from a relatively empty breast, the more milk you will make - that's how your body learns to make more milk.

So although formula looks like a solution to a 'not enough milk' situation, it just makes matters worse.

The thing is, just because a baby will take formula, doesn't mean she needs it. They suck for comfort, and milk in a bottle comes out more easily. Babies do sleep more deeply when they've had formula - it is harder to digest than breast milk, and sits in the gut.

It sounds very stressful for you, dealing with marital issues. Stress doesn't generally affect milk supply, although it can slow down your letdown. (When the milk really starts pouring out of the breast.)

You're doing your best in a difficult situation. Trying to get some help from the HV sounds wise. What sort of support do you have for your domestic situation? (Friends, family?)

16 weeks is a growth spurt time. So you're doing brilliantly, but she's feeding and feeding in order to ramp up your supply. If you keep feeding on demand (totally the best thing to do) your breasts will respond and you'll feel 'full' again in no time.

Try and drink lots of water, eat regularly, and take it as easy as possible (which I know is not always possible). It's a difficult age - growth spurt and also developmental leap, so sleep is often affected.

You are doing the right thing. Talk to a HV for some support, but please don't feel guilty about being a great mum.

Thank you guys, you made me cry
I am feeding her whenever she asks, but she gets really restless after a little while and starts kicking and crying even while still on the breast. Ive noticed when she's full that she stops sucking and plays with her mouth a bit, even if on a bottle, she wont drink it all if she is full, she just plays with the teat in her mouth. I only give her a couple of ounces if I have fed her on both sides and she is still searching and whiney, its exhausting me.
As for home support, I dont have anyone really. Its not a major problem, I just feel like he is giving me no support at all, he has exactly the same life as he did before Baby was born, goes out with his mates whenever he wants, does whatever he wants and Im the one who gave up a 45hour a week job and am now stuck at home with a baby. When she cries, he either laughs or ignores it, he is too busy playing some internet war game on his pc to actually spend time with either of us. He spends his only day off with his ex wifes children (she already had kids when they got married, they were married less than a year, 7 years ago)
I feel so angry at him all the time, I actually feel like it would be easier if I told him to leave, Im angry at him because he is here but no support or help.... maybe if he wasnt here and was no support or help I wouldnt feel as angry and ignored.... and maybe he would actually make time for us both. I just feel like he is taking the piss. We have had the same descussion about it over and over and over and he says he will try to spend more time with us, but nothing changes. We have barely spoken the past week and I dont want my daughter growing up in this stressed out situation.

I really wanna do the best for my baby, and breastfeeding was always something I was adamant I would do for at least a year, with hopefully expressing for her the second year, but now I feel like such a failure because she is so miserable all the time, and truth be told, so am I.

By major problem I meant like abuse or cheating, obviously it is a major problem for me, but in the scale of marital problems, it could be worse.

That's appalling, you poor thing. Do you have family you can go and stay with for a bit, just to get some support?

I don't know what to say about a boy man who spends his time on the computer while his daughter is crying. Well, I do, but you'd have to turn your daughter's eyes from the screen if I were to type the words I'm thinking.

It probably would be easier if you told him to leave, to be honest. And it might shock him into growing the fuck up.

She's still asleep so she cant see.
I know, he wonders why I get so annoyed at him, the other day she was crying for ages, if she really screams he just laughs and says "oh she really meant that one" after a while I got really angry and threw my computer mouse on the floor (I have my pc set up so I can use it from the sofa) and decided to take her into the bedroom and he simply looked over from his computer, watched me walk out, followed me to ask why I had slammed the bedroom door ("coz its my flat, my door and if I wanna slam it I will!") and then went back to his game!
He did ask once if I wanted him to take her.... after an hour of crying when I was so close to screaming myself, but at that moment I was trying to work out what was to hand to throw at him that would hurt the most, or how many pieces I could break his pc into, so I really did not want to hand her over and free up my hands so i did kinda growl "No thanks" at him.

He is 28 FFS, if he hasnt grown up by now, will he ever? I really dont want him to leave, I love him so much and I want us to be a family so badly, but I really dont think I can cope with him much more.
My mum is the only one nearby and she has 3 kids living with her in her 3 bedroom house, I know she would make space for me if I needed her too, but the last thing she needs is me, baby and the puppy landing at her doorstep. Plus its my fucking flat so I refuse to leave because of him.

On the other hand, I know he has nowhere else to go and I am too nice to kick him out knowing that. I have a better relationship with his mum that he does, his dad has a young family and no space and his mates all live at home.

Ive gone completely off topic here, Im gonna keep trying with the feeding, and try not to use formula, maybe just a little top up at night because the lack of sleep is turning me into a wreck, but I had forgotten about growth spurts so maybe I can just blame that. She was smiling and laughing a bit yesterday so she cant be miserable all the time.

Hi there

I just wanted to post to offer a bit of support as I really feel for you - you sound so frustrated. Re the BF side of things, as long as the HVs are happy that your baby is putting on weight and is healthy please try not to worry that she is starving. The HV will pick up on any problems and as long as you keep feeding your baby when she asks for it you can't go far wrong. As one of the other posters says, your breasts will adapt to the changing demands of your baby and it's almost impossible to know where the hell all the milk comes from once the supply/ demand hurdle has been cleared and your boobs don't feel like zeppelins the whole time! I think what babies are very good at is making us wonder what on earth we have done differenctly when their pattern changes and I'm sure most of the time it has absolutely nothing to do with mum - the baby just does what s/he needs to do...

As for your partner - Jeez - the simple answer is to kick him into touch - he sounds like a complete waste of space. But nothing's ever that simple! Could you go and stay with someone to help you through for a couple of weeks until you've got more energy to deal with him?

I dont really have anywhere I can go. Ive been in this area 2 yrs but coz of the hours of my job, I only have collegues, not friends. My dad lives 30miles away and I wouldnt live with him (he has a temper) and my mum has enough stress with the kids and social services and stuff to be worried about making space for me.

I seriously have nobody!

He is a good bloke, he just sucks at giving me support. He does a bit of washing up and hangs some clothes out now and then, but then says it like its such a hardship coz he's been at work all day, I told him the other day that I work 24/7 and dont get time off but still manage to get some of the jobs done, including cleaning out all the animal cages, taking the puppy for a walk, and managing to feed myself. He cant even manage to hold Baby and make lunch while I can cook our dinner one handed without putting her anywhere near anything hot. He just grins and says "its just coz your so great" but it doesnt feel like a compliment, more like a way of getting me to do everything whether I am holding the baby or not.

adjust your lifestyle to how it was in the newborn days for a few weeks.

Oh jeez, I barely left the bed let alone the flat those first few weeks. I will keep on trying and give it my all.

The ppl in the flat above have now decided this is the perfect time to start hammering above my bedroom so I can see her waking up very soon with all the banging so I had better go and see how a feed goes,

Thank you all so much for your support, its been so nice having someone understand how you feel and have a bit of advice.

I will keep trooping on!

Is it WoW he is playing?

I think maybe you should also post in Relationships to get some help in getting him to support you.

On the BF side, I would only be repeating what has already been said.
You really want to the best for you baby and that's just great; she's very lucky to have you

Right, first of all stop looking after your DP, he is a big boy and can be left to his own devices.

Do only what is absolutely necessary around the house. No more, feed yourself, keep yourself and baby clean and the house not filthy (I have quite low standards, I find it more relaxing ).

Your breasts are not empty, they have milk in them she just needs the chance to keep at them to pull it out, she is also "ordering" in more milk by sucking on them all the time.

My DSs have always wriggled and growled at the breast in the evenings, it just seems to be something most of them do. I would stop with the formula top ups and just let her feed and feed and feed and feed, she really can't have too much time there.

Tell your DP to grow the fuck up or ship the fuck out.

Trust yourself and your body to know what to do, really it does.

want to echo everything that's been said!

but in case you want to read a bit more about it...

on why your breasts don't feel so full (but really do have lots of milk still)
here

four-month-old sleep regression/feeding frenzy hell! (all very normal, honestly)
here

My XP was very similar to this when our son was born. I find it interesting to hear he spends more time with his older children. It's like he thinks that babies are boring and he can just pick them up later when they get more interesting - well a baby is not a computer game!!

The behaviour you describe could be just laziness, but it can also be a sign of controlling, manipulative behaviour. Either way, don't think that it's "not bad enough" to warrant action - he's not pulling his weight at all, he's having a laugh.

Can you have the baby in bed with you at all? Do you have a bed in a spare room you could take her to and just snuggle in and feed her and sleep at the same time?

Have you got a sure start centre near you at all you could get out to during the day to meet some other mums? The support workers there also might be able to help you talk things through. Or is your HV nice, could you talk to her to see if you can access any kind of support, homestart etc?

My HV is really nice but I havent seen her in a while. The baby is in a crib right against my bed so i can sleep with my hand through the bars, she likes to hold my hand sometimes to fall asleep. I cant put her in the bed coz he moves around a lot and I tend to kick him a few times coz he wakes me up elbowing me or something, plus he is a really heavy sleeper.
He seems to like spending time with his ex's kids more, coz he can take them out and buy them things and they are always so pleased to see him coz its once a week and they know they are gonna get loads of treats (i've started goin to my mums with Baby on the day he has them coz i cant stand the way he ignores his own daughter but spends the whole day with them)

Im gonna stop the formula, and just keep on feeding her as much as i can, after i went to get her up today I could feel fullness and she had a really good feed, although she did take both sides, then we had 2 dirty nappies so I know she is getting food now, Ive been waiting for a dirty nappy for a few days and I knew it was due. She is sitting next to be coo-ing and laughing at the puppy now so maybe things are ok and I just over reacted through tiredness and stress. Feels better now I have ranted and had a good morning with my gorgeous little girl.

I start Baby Sensory classes next week and have joined a group of mums from here on Facebook and agreed to go to a coffee morning and day at the beach next week so I can get out and meet other mums and hopefully feel a bit more supported.

Oh and its not WoW, its some Facebook War game, I dont really ask about it but I know he is talking to his mates on there and playing with other people, the funny thing is when he started playing it he said it was something he only had to spend "a quick 5 mins an evening" on but its the first thing he does when he gets up, spends an hour on it before work, then walks in the door after work and before he even says hello to the Baby he turns his pc on, then he's gone till bedtime. But he has the nerve to say that we never watch anything on tv that he wants to watch!

Sounds just as bad . I only ask cos DH use to play WoW (I'll only play the odd hour here and ther ) and I came very very close to telling him to leave over it. He stopped playing before christmas and has since said the he realises what an inconsiderate arse he was.

"after i went to get her up today I could feel fullness and she had a really good feed, although she did take both sides, then we had 2 dirty nappies so I know she is getting food now, Ive been waiting for a dirty nappy for a few days and I knew it was due. She is sitting next to be coo-ing and laughing at the puppy now"

Oh, this is lovely. You are doing so well. I remember those first months, and I had huge amounts of support and a wonderful hands on husband and it was still scary and intimidating. And I'm older than you!

Agree that it's worth starting a thread in Relationships about the partner, see if you can get some sensible advice. But as for your daughter, you are doing a brilliant job and she is a lucky baby to have such a great mum.

Doninha I just read your OP and was saying "Growth Spurt! Growth Spurt!" all the way through it. Looks like you have got some great advice from everyone else.

I too remember the dismay when a previously happy 4 month old baby suddenly started waking up all through the night. I hadn't heard of growth spurts then - it felt like the end of the world.

Re boobs being empty, the HV said to me that your body produces milk all the time just like it produces urine all the time - you don't have to feel like your bladder is full to have urine in it. Bit of a bleurgh analogy but it worked for me.

Re your DP, don't do anything reckless . . . most women I know would cheerfully have seen the back of their husbands when their babies were small, even if they were helpful. This is truly the most stressful time in your relationship. He may well have been told by his own mother to "leave you to it," or feel that you think he does everything wrong so is afraid to do anything for the baby.

I am not feeling sorry for him BTW, I am feeling sorry for you. But I would hate for you to throw him out when you are suffering so much from other causes at the same time.

Get feeding back on track, get your sleep back on track, and then worry about what to do about DP.

You sound like you are doing brilliantly.

Just to clarify - I wasn't saying you should tell him to leave (and BalloonSlayer I'm not saying that you were saying I was iyswim ) but I felt very much like doing so when I was in a similar position.
It's really tough when you have no support and are trying to care for a baby too.

My XP was the same when my twins were born. Took his paternity leave whilst I was in hospital so he could revise for an exam; continued going out to the pub (including nipping out twice whilst I was in labour); and did not push the buggy until they were 3/12 old when a friend of his shamed him into it.

In the meantime he could not understand why I changed from the fun loving, laid back person I had been before the birth. I remember at one point him accusing me of becoming "such a nag" and without a trace of irony I replied "well, if you just obeyed me the first time, I would not have to nag".

Every time he nipped out for a paper I wondered if he would come back; I think it was just the fact that his family and friends would have totally sided with me that stopped him. He admitted I was right about this years later.

I am pleased that we are not together anymore. I would also say that it was easier after he was gone to either empty the nappy bin myself, or live with it, rather than either nagging or sitting there thinking "If I can smell it why can't he? Why should I have to tell a grown man what to do?

But I have to tell you that single parenthood is really hard. It is particularly difficult because you have to stay in contact with him. It is also hard for your child.

I am very surprised at the number of women on here telling you to kick him out. Having a child is a massive adjustment for both of you. There might be unresolved issues about his other kids (not wanting to behave differently/ love this child more/ worrying about getting too attached and then you splitting up).

I am not recommending becoming a doormat, but anger and pointing out his bad behaviour is likely to make him defensive and clearly does not work. Asking him for help when you need it might be better. If he has to look you in the eye and say no, he might realise quite how he is behaving.

Oh, and if it does not work out, then he needs to leave, and where he ends up is not your problem or responsibility. However, if you have a good relationship with his Mum, then reassuring her that your argument is with him not her, and that you do not want her to lose touch with her grandchild, will pay dividends.