HV wants me to wean but I'm not sure

[catski]

I must preface this by saying that I'm typing on phone as pc knackered so apologies for crap typing!

DD is five months old and exclusively breastfed. Over the last two months her weight has dropped from the 75th to 25th centile, and height from 50th to 25th centile, and HV says I should start weaning her.

I'm a little reluctant as I know it's contrary to WHO advice and I feel my HV is a little old school. DS seems fine in herself - happy and alert - although over the last month she has gone from sleeping a six hour stretch at night to waking at least every two hours. I assumed this was growth spurt related but it's not getting any better. She has always been fed on demand but over the last month I have alsotried increasing her feeds to at least once every three hours during the day in addition to the multiple night wakings. All to no avail so far though as her weight gain continued to slow.

This week I have tried giving her a bottle at night to see if that filled her up for longer. I have to give her hypoallergenic formula as she has eczema and suspected cow and soya milk allergy. She downed 7 ounces no prob so I breastfed her too and she still woke up 90 minutes later!

The eczema thong also makes me reluctant to wean early too as I know early weaning can be linked to asthma an allergies and she already semms vulnerable to allergies.

I always thought that more milk feeds would be more calorific than a bit of porridge (I am in Sweden and this is what is commonly used to start weaning) but she seems to be having an awful lot with still decreased weight gain.

If it makes any difference neither I nor my husband are very big people. I'd say my husband is average and I'm shorter and smaller than average.

It's not something I feel I can discuss with my HV. As I've said, I think she's kind of old school and we've had differences of opinion before. I get the feeling that she's filed me under. 'difficult foreigner' so I just kind of did the smile and nod thing when she suggested early weaning.

Any advice? I don't really want to wean early if not necessary but then neither do I want to starve the girl!

You wouldn't be starving her. As you well know, milk has far more calories and remains the bulk of calorie intake until 12 months.

She is otherwise well, yes? Still gaining weight, though at a slower pace? This is normal. More active, developing etc, weight gain does slow down. And her length and weight centile match. They wouldn't in an undernourished child.

Just smile and nod a bit longer. Would you consider blw? The theory being if they can sit there, pick up food, chew and swallow it, they're ready.

The waking up bit's normal too. It takes a lot of calories to learn to do all the clever things she is doing right now.

That's what I thought about the pureed carrot starlight but I don't know if hypoallergenic milk is as calorific as breast or normal formula milk??? I mean, there's no cows milk, no soya, what is in it?!

I can also see why some women think they (but maybe not the baby) are ready to wean at 4 months. At four months on the dot my periods returned, my hair fell out (and still is) by the fistfull, I no longer feel the let down and I'm just not sure that my milk is up to scratch .

Developmentally wise, DD is not showing any signs that she's ready in terms of sitting up, showing interest in our food etc. It's only this week that her little head has stopped bobbling around when she's upright!

Yes, SOH she seems happy otherwise. Trying to roll over and a lot more kicky and wagglie than she used to be. I did try blw with ds but my nerves weren't up to it so there was a bit of spoon feeding too. The same hv was breathing down my neck to wean him at 4 months actually even tho his weight gain hadn't slowed. It was great waiting until six months tho as we were able to progress to lumpy food pretty quick and missed a lot of the pureed stage.

You have confirmed what my intincts tel me. I don't think she's ready yet. Plus if she's vulnerable to allergies I want to give her digestive system as much time as poss to develop before plying it with solids.
If her parents are anything to go by she's never going to be a 75th percentile kind of gal so I think I'm going to have to practice my head scratching and puzzled look before next weigh in.

Catski, why do you think your milk isn't up to scratch? You're doing brilliantly. The frequent waking thing could be a growth spurt, or maybe just a habit she got into after a growth spurt. Either way, it won't last forever. Your hair falling out, and periods restarting, really don't have either an impact on feeding, or are a marker for your milk changing in any way.

You say DD is happy and alert. And that your observations tell you she's not ready to go onto solids. I'd bear this in mind, over the outdated advice of a HV who needs some retraining! Do you have to continue to see her? Nobody has to attend baby clinic if they don't want to.

Which formula are you using? They are usually nutritionally complete -- they provide everything baby needs, standard formulas give 67 kcals per 100ml as a reference.

She sounds fine but is using up a huge about of energy, maybe try aiming for a bf every 2½ hours thru the day?

hi my ds is 5 months and my hair is falling out too.... (Its normal apparently and down to fact that when you are pregnant it doesnt fall out but as body returns to normal it does again!) my periods returned when he was 11 weeks and it did affect my milk supply and has continued to do so for a few days at the start of each period.....when you are expecting it its not so bad.

however ds is being weaned and is loving it.... his appetite is huge and he was 10lb 11ozs at birth... I am stil breastfeeding in between with the odd formula feed and its working well.

my HV told me ds was in danger of putting too MUCH weight on with bf an ddue to reflux that weaning might help/ it has helped reflux and he is more settled and gets less stressed when i bf him......he simply couldnt keep down the amount of milk he needed to satisfy his appetite. he is now 22lb+ at almost 22 weeks!!!!!

go with your gut instinct but i would try formula before weaning and just see.....as people have said there are no calories in carrot and my ds is having that to help him not put weight ON!!!!

good luck xxx

Just my experience but thought I'd share:
My mum and dh pressurised me to wean dd at 5 months (oh look she's hungry, she's interested in food, why not let her try it etc etc) until I gave in.

All that happened was that I BATTLED with dd to try to get her to eat solids until the day she turned six months when she suddenly started eating solids without any trouble at all. I should have stuck with my instincts and waited until I thought she was ready.

Catski, you are the mum, go with your instincts.

exactly!!!!

ds doesnt need any persuading to eat at all.... i put the food on the spoon and he grabs my hand and pushes it to his mouth. lets face it we all have different eating habits as adults and like to eat dif things at dif time so why cant babys.... some are ready and some arent. will certainly make a move towards BLW at 6 months though as he sucks on his net thing now and the odd chunk of whatever. some will say i am evil for weaning but HE IS READY... if you dont feel you dd is then stand by your guns and wait..... i would.....food is MESSY.... LOL xx

I think the HV might be right though - (sorry if this has been repeated earlier I haven't had time to read and am jut about to dash out the door!).

Had the same bother with my DS1 at the same point in his life. I gave him his last feed at night as a solid meal, which was baby porridge made up with expressed breast milk - that way the little un got the best of both worlds - breast milk a la me and solid food which would take longer to digest and hey presto, it worked.

DS continued to pile on the pounds and I was able to continue breast feeding and had a better nights sleep.

Hope you get it sorted!

Reshape - I'm worried that my milk is not up to much as I suppose I was mistakenly worried that return of periods/ hair falling out may have been indications in a change of quantity/ quality of milk. Also, although I don't express often as I can't get much out, when I do and it has been sitting in the fridge long enough to separate, there is only a very thin layer of 'cream' which leads me to suspect my milk doesnt have a very high fat content. As I said before, I haven't felt the let down for the last twomonths and my boobs now feel permanently soft and 'empty'.

Having said that, although she feeds often, she seems satisfied although it seems she will take more if offered it (as shown by the breastfeed after bottle the other night).

I'm using a Swedish hypoallergenic formula called profylac Moneynopockets. I will check to see if it lists the calorific content (and the hypoallergenic baby porridge I picked up).

I'm just smiling at the thought of my hv's reaction if I tell her I'm blw'ing - I think shed spontaneously combust once and for all! It seems to be strict adherence to porridge and välling from 4 months in her book (välling is like à watery gruel given in a bottle in Scandinavia). When my hv first suggested weaning a month ago my daughter's head was so wobbly When sitting up I would have to had to have spooned food into her lying down which just doesn't seem right...

Thanks for your viewpoint too thecalvert. I had a similar discussion with my H who thinks we should give it a go to see if she will sleep longer at night. I think as another poster said she is partly waking up from habit now as well.

Gawd, sorry again for awful typing!

my milk only had a thin layer of fat..... but ds is a porker....23lbs now at 21 weeks. but my periods did def change my milk and production levels.

valling sounds proper yukky!!!! xx

Thanks sparkly. How did you know your milk changed your production levels? Do you express a lot?

Well, I don't know what to make of her being satisfied after a feed. I breastfed her last night at 11 and she seemed satisfied, but I decided to then offer her a 'top up' of formula and she took 7.5 ounces! She had that 'don't move me too quick or I'm going to splagg all over' look about her afterwards, and she slept for 5.5 hours.

Perhaps I should top her up after every night feed? I don't really want to do it after every day feed as I think that will be the slippery slope to then end of breastfeeding, but I do think that increased milk (be it breast milk or formula) seems preferable to solids at this stage???

Her next weigh in is 27th may. TBH I'd like to get her weighed before that to check she isn't still slowing down but I don't think there are weigh in clinics in Sweden plus we go on holiday on Monday for 10 days.

Your DD sounds absolutely healthy and her slowing down is normal ime. DD slowed to a standstill over the 6 weeks until she was 6m. The HV was pressuring me too, but the same was happenning to all the babies I knew that age so I stuck to the BFing and she was fine (woke a bit more often for feeds tho!)

I would wait if I were you, esp with the allergy concerns, then wean slowly introducing simple foods very gradually, www.kellymom.com has some good advice on weaning allery prone babies that really helped us.

catski, it is well within normal for a baby to drop two centiles. It's only a concern if there are signs of illness or anything else worrying.

It's a shame your HV has worried you about this.

Many babies will take a top up, even a large top up, when it's offered. She might just as readily gone back to the breast.

Nothing you say here makes it sound as if there is anything amiss at all....and if there is nothing amiss, you don't need to do anything about it

Thank you. I will continue as we are doing. For the 3 or so weeks until she is six months I don't think it's worth taking the risks associated with early weaning, especially as she seems otherwise well in herself. Even then I'll take the weaning at her pace. If they're under one it's just for fun, right?!

I will check out the kellymom advice too - than you.

yes i do express every night....i struggle to feed ds when out as he is a big baby and i have boobs with nipples in awkward angles so an expresso is easier......i could struggle to get a few ounces at that time but get 9 normally!!!! Only bf ds once or twice a day now and express to put on his brekkie but i stil notice a change!! also noticed that ds was fiddly and on and off every hour at that time of the month too.....its something noone warned me about but there is info in internet if you google it!!!!

9 ounces! Wow, that's amazing! On a very good day if I time it properly I could probably get about 3.

Right, I weighed her today at a drop in place and in the last 8 days she's put on 415grams (which I think is 14.6 ounces). That's a lot isn't it? Kellymom seems to suggest that anything between 92 and 142grams per week is average at this age. I think that puts her back up toward the 50th centile and I definitely think I can hold off the meat and potato pies for a bit longer.