thrush, difficulty getting treatment, need to vent!

[willowstar]

Hello

I posted on here a couple of days ago that I was having pain when feeding, not sure why but thought due to teeth coming in...anyway ended up with cracked bleeding nipple and lots of pain with feeding and now between feeding pain deep down in my breast.

so, I spoke to NCT counsillor and a lactation consultant (who is a friend) who suggested thrush. I looked it up and I have the symptoms and my daughter has some symptoms too.

So, I phoned GP this morning to get appointment and was told that he had been a gp for 30 years and had never heard of thrush in the breast and that it sounded like an infection. I then went to see the gp, was examinined thoroughly and was told that even though I wasn't displaying any of the symptoms of mastitis it probably was an infection...and prescribed antibiotics.

I had gone armed with the breastfeeding network leaflet on thrush and the info from NHS Scotland.

So, I said i was reluctant to take antibiotics as I felt so well and wasn't displaying any signs of infection and if it is a fungal infection then antibiotics would only make it worse.

he finally prescribed anti fungal gel for me and my baby after a fair bit of negotiation. told me to go back in 10 days if I wasn't better.

after which I went to boots and bought fluconazole and just took it. it costs a fortune and the guidelines are that i have to take it for 10 days.

I am so so sick of arrogant dr's who don't trust patients and who think that they know it all. I am a health care professional, I have a PhD and have worked int eh NHS most of my working life...I just find it so hugely frustrating.

anyway...does anyone know how best to clean my daughters toys so that we can minimise the risk of reinfection??? How best to kill of the fungal spores???

Hard toys can go in the dishwasher, soft toys thru the wash.

Also if your dd has a dummy/paci then it needs to be regularly swapped for a sterilised one, as within an hour of being out of her mouth spores could have grown.

how frustrating .

The ignorance of doctors about thrush is astonishing, especially when everyone wants to encourage breasteeding. I actually cried when the locum I saw wouldn't prescribe flucozanole - the pain was so bad I was pleading with her tht it may make me give up feeding . Thank god I could buy it over the counter!

It's much cheaper online - try places like pharmacy first and chemist direct (sorry for no links but one-handed typing while feeding). It was also much cheaper from my high street chemist (I'm assuming you're not buying the branded canestenone).

You should also hot wash towels, muslins, nursing bras, pjs etc to kill of any spores on them.

And i've found lansinoh to seal in the daktarin on the nipples really helped the craks to heal.

good luck!

poor you, the ignorance of GP's when it comes to breastfeeding never ceases to amaze me.

If I were you I would call the Doctors, ask to speak to the practice manager and request an appointment with a different GP - take along your leaflets and insist they give you a prescription for fluconazole. Gp's are reluctant to prescribe Fluconazole because it is not licenced for breastfeeding mothers (even though it is licenced for babies!)

GOod luck and I hope you feel better soon x

Agreed, I had similar problems with my GP - after using the oh-so-patronising line 'well breastfeeding can tingle sometimes' (no, I said I'm in EXCRUCIATING PAIN), mine swore blind that thrush can't be transferred from my DS's mouth to my breast as it's a one-way arrangement - stuff goes out not in.
After much arguing I did finally get the medication I wanted, but it really hacks me off the way we have to diagnose ourselves like this.

sad to know I am not alone. I took a double dose of the canestan fluconazole yesterday and it made me feel a bit weird. I coulnd't get a generic brand locally but am going to try another chemist today.

today my boobs feel worse, the areolas are redder and they are starting to itch, also it has gone into my other boob. But, I did read that it would probably get worse before it gets better so I am prepared for it sort of.

my daughter is reacting strangly to it all...she fell asleep 7:30 ish last night, then woke up at 9:15 and was up PLAYING and in a great mood until 12:30, fed at 3:30 then up at 6:30. She has just gone for a nap at 9. She is clining to my boob like a log in a shipwreck when she is trying to get off to sleep and is on and off for ages before she manages to settle. Mind you she has been doing that for a couple of weeks.

thanks for the advice...we spent a couple of hours last night putting all of her toys through the dishwasher and washing my lovely new nursing bras at 90degrees.

I spoke to my health visitor yesterday and she says she sees 1 or 2 women a month with thrush so how my gp hasn't seen in such a small town is a wonder.

Oh and flip...you mentioned that everyone wants to encourage breastfeeding???

that is bollocks in my experience when it comes to the medical profession. my little girl has always been very small and I was told by 4 paediatricians just to give her formula to fatten her up. She is just fine but I found the lack of support for breastfeeding very saddening.

I suggest you ask to see a different GP if you can. I had to do that, saw one last week who just prescribed painkillers, but saw a different one yesterday and took the bf network leaflet. She prescribed everything I needed, rather reluctantly.

This seems to be such a common problem it's completely ridiculous. Lots of people seemed to have followed the 10 day regime of fluconazole successfully without harm to their baby. If there was enough evidence could they get it licensed?

My sympathies, I really struggled with thrush and odd precriptions from GPs (and advice from a pharmacist to wash my breasts with hot soapy water before every feed and all would be well!)

I left it a long time before it was diagnosed and it became very stubborn to treat- I had three courses of fluconazole in the end, plus every alternative/herbal thingy I could throw at it. I also cut out sugar and yeast as much as possible from my diet (oh how I missed my alcohol free beers!) which was very tough.

I ended up with a nasty, deep crack that just would not heal and lasted for weeks , despite the latch being sorted, and in the end I used Silverettes (told you I went crazy on the alternative stuff!) which are silver nipple cover thingys I got from Breastfeeding Heaven which gave the crack a chance to heal as the silver is meant to be antibacterial/antifungal. (I was very sceptical and taped a silver ring onto my nipple with micropore tape and saw such a difference I bought the Silverettes, they were £15 but saved my sanity. And my nipple!) All in all it took 6 months before I was thrush free.

Hopefully you will not have such a hellish time! I got tons of info on Kellymom about all the alternative treatments. Most folk find the fluconazole knocks it on the head, hope it works for you.

It's a horrible pain, and it is made worse by having to self-diagnose/argue with grandfatherly GPs telling you it's normal to nip a bit...

Don't forget to hot wash cloth nappies if you use them.

Hope my story doesn't scare you too much, I personally find it perversely helpful to hear about folk having as hard or harder time than me! I am still feeding my 18m DS and it's pain free and fantastic. You'll get through it.

thanks MrsMotMot, the bit i like best is the last sentance, that does inspire me! I will have to look into the silverette thingys if I don't heal. I just want the pain to go away and to get back to our lovely feeding time together...not this fairly stressful stuff that we have going on just now.

Day 2 on fluconazole, all bedding being washed at 90 degrees as we speak.

This may be silly question, but if she was at nursery just now would she be able to go? I mean we are hot washing everything she rams into her mouth every night, but what about when she is in contact with other babies? Come to think of it, I have put us into exile from baby groups and friends with babies, is this necessary?

I think you could really go on forever if you thought about it too hard. What you're doing at home is ample I think. And unlike me you haven't let it run rampant (forgot to mention I had horrendous vaginal thrush too- I was, like, ridden!) so the fluconazole should kick it. But there is a wealth of herbal stuff out there too and, although I think it's difficult to get in the UK, gentian violet, which was the one thing I didn't try. (Actually I don't think you can get it at all anymore)

Keep going!

Thinking about it I may have to change my nickname to MrsThrush... I always pop up on thrush threads!

oo I feel for you, vaginal thrush is horrible too. I will look into the alternative herbal stuff.

I think this has maybe come about because I am really worn down. My daughter still wakes 2-3 times in the night and my boob is the only way to settle her, my husband has been working away pretty solidly for the last 8 weeks or so and have no family nearby so it has been pretty intense.

I need to at least remember to take vitamins, that would be a start.

thanks for the advice, really appreciate it.

Willow sounds like you're doing all the right things. Hopefully your DD doesn't have it but fwiw my DS didn't display any visible symptoms for ages but was very fussy on the boob and hard to settle/windy. Which I think was caused by the thrush. I know what you mean about HCPs not supporting BFing enough - I should have said "supposed to want to encourage BFing"! I was so naive about BFing - I thought it would be a breeze and ended up with 3 weeks of thrush and am still treating my cracked nipples with jelonet and lansinoh (my DS is now 7 weeks).

MrsMotMot god, you went through the wringer. But it's inspiring that you came out the other side and are still going strong . Did you try pau d'arco? I'm tempted to get some, as my DS still has some patches in his mouth (so I'm still using daktarin on my nipples) and I'm paranoid about getting another dose...

Thanks Flip, the whole breast feeding experience is a bit of a shock isn't it? I hate to say this but my main motivation for wanting to do it was because I thought it would help me to lose weight (which it hasn't) and because I am not very organised and didn't want the hassle of bottles.

It wasn't until I had my daughter and she latched on for the first time that I realised how much I wanted to do it, and the first few weeks were hideous. The last few months have been an absolute breeze though.

I am starting to think that my daughter might have had thrush for a while because she has been very very unsettled while feeding, but I thought that was maybe down to all the changes she is going through and 6-7 months. Tonight she had the best feed she has had for many weeks, could just be conincidence or it could be that the Daktarin she has had the last few days has helped her. Poor little thing, I didn't even know she was suffering.

You poor thing, that's awful.

I have thrush in my breasts atm but am managing to keep it under control with probiotics (it's not that bad) - maybe worth trying alongside everything else?

I take it myself orally, give some to ds (I mix the powder with a bit of bm and rub it into his mouth where he has thrush) and when my breasts are bad, also put some on the nipples.

Seems to help...

Oooooo I had this. Shudder at the memory. It was freaking agony, invloving me swaying and crying whilst feeding.

My GP was a hero, said he had no idea what I was on about, but to give a few days to google it.

I went back and saw a mn print out! Also a Kellymom and a few others. He said he had no idea how much there was to breastfeeding, and what a bad image his type had, which I felt a bit sad about as he was a star.
He also went on to prescribe a 28 day course of the precious meds, on the documented understanding that I realised it was not licensed. Bless him.

I felt better after about 4 days. Bloody marvellous!

Keep with everyone, the relief when it goes is so immense, that had you to feed 25 hours a day whilst eating nothing but a rice cake, it would be bliss in comparison!

We simply sterilised everything solid and washed everything cloth at about 60 degrees. Seemed to work as it didn't return, and I made a better effort to change my breast pads regulary. I'd recommend cloth washable ones instead of gel, which I felt we hotter and sweatier and maybe more likely to grow the fungus.

Good luck everyone!

willow sounds like we have similar motivations for breastfeeding . I felt similar when I realised my DS had been suffering in silence (well, with lots of crying but with me not knowing iykwim). I was even more pissed off as I'd been to 3 different breastfeeding support groups and no one had put my symptoms together to diagnose thrush! Glad to hear the daktarin is working for your daughter - I think my son loves the taste of it, he drools happily after he's had his dose!

Please can I gatecrash/sympathise/moan?

I have had vaginal thrush on and off for the past few months and I am sure that DD has it too as she often has red spots on her nappy area which go away when treatd with canesten/similar. I also get occasional pains in my breasts, though I don't think it's taken hold there yet completely. I am sure that the two of us must be passing it backwards and forwards but all I can seem to get prescribed is pointless creams that treat the symptoms but it comes back as soon as we stop using them. I currently just put cream on DD every night but I hate doing it.

It all came to a head while we were away when I had a bad bout and managed to pass it on to DH. Luckily we were in France, where they love drugs, so went out and bought a pessary etc and that seems to have knocked it on the head for now, but DD still has spots on her fanjo when I stop with the cream. GP just fobs us off and makes me feel stupid. I really just want to take a course of fluconazole and flush the bloody thing out of us once and for all but struggling to get a prescription and can't really afford to buy it over the counter. Going to check out buying it online now - thanks for that

Found this place where you can get fluconazole 150mg for 16p but now arguing with bloody DH about whether DD and I actually have thrush and whether it is bound to be fake because it's only 16p. GAh!

Willow - poor you! Total sympathy. When I had DC3 I ad thrush in my breasts and did not know what to do with myself it hurt so much. Luckily lovely GP who gave me the right meds but I did have to take the leaflets with me to 'prove' that fluconazole was Ok to take. Once I'd had thrush I found I was prone to it for about another year ( also cos tired, rundown etc), so take good care of yourself (yes, very difficult with small DCs) but is really essential - no housework and lots of takeaways!

Dita I bought that flucozanole - the p&p cost is relatively expensive, so the total worked out as not much less than the cost of other sites. But still cheaper. It's real, as in it was in the same packaging as the generic stuff I bought over the counter from my high street chemist for 6 quid. It does sound like you need a course of flucozanole to get rid of it properly...

Thanks for the feedback Flip - very helpful. DH and I ended up rowing, which we hardly ever do He wants me to go back to the GP for a proper diagnosis - he doesn't realise how little HCPs seem to know about bfing or how often I've been fobbed off! So plan is to go back and hopefully see a different GP. I feel terrible as I'll have to let DD's rash flare up, which isn't nice, but otherwise there's nothing to show! I've got DH to print out the BfN leaflet, so hopefully that will help.

Sorry for the hijack!

Sorry to hear of the row - it's so stressful . My own DH was amazed as I actually broke down in tears about the pain (I'm one of those "ah, sure it's grand, just a little sore" type reporters of pain usually ). Try this site as well - it's an NHS one so may carry a little more weight with the GP (although it didn't help the OP on this thread!). Good luck.

Flip no I didn't try that one- amazingly! I think I was imbibing/swabbing/eating everything else I could, even raw garlic at one point (desperate- switched to tablets, ugh)

TOTALLY agree about the breastpads- if you can stop using gel filled chemical ones do. I forgot to say that made a huge difference to me. But it was only later I did so- I held off for ages as I leaked so much anything other than heavy duty ones were useless.

It is totally possible to beat the thrush, I am proof of it!

mrsmotmot I've just bought some pau d'arco tablets as I'm paranoid about getting it again (my DS still has a bit in his mouth but so far, fingers crossed, I'm OK). What else did you try? [nosey emoticon]. Must start using the washable breast pads I bought - I've been reluctant...not sure why so should just try them!

Willowstar hope you're doing better and that the flucozanole is working.