Nearly 13 weeks and losing the will a bit now

[wasabipeanut]

I posted earlier this week asking for advice with DD's breast refusal. I think that she was having a 12 week growth spurt and my supply just wasn't quite enough - especially in the afternoon. I supplemented with stored EBm for a couple of days and things seemed to straighten out. Today the same thing has started again. She is cranky, unsettled and unhappy. Her naps have gone to pot (not that they were great to start with) and the only way to calm her this morning was with a 5oz bottle which she glugged down. Happy as Larry afterwards and now snoozing.

I have just expressed 6oz out of one boob so I'm just baffled that this can still be a supply issue? I'm getting really upset and spent half the morning in tears because I can't seem to satisfy her. DH is now saying that perhaps its time to think about a bottle of formula. I really don't want to as I was so determined to exclusively bf this time round. DH has been really supportive but he sees me and DD getting upset and he just wants to make it ok. The longer this goes on though the more I can feel my resolve weakening.

She's been ok at night. Goes down anytime between about 7 & 8 - wakes about 12-1ish and 4ish. Has a bottle of EBM at the 1st wake up from DH and bf from me at the later wake up which she takes happily. She also feeds happily from the breast erly in the morning.

Wht's wrong with me????

Congratulations on your baby.

You sound as though you are doing really well breastfeeding through tears and all that.

Are you getting your EBM supply by expressing after each feed? If so they that should increase your supply.

Just a thought maybe you should do the morning feeds breastfeeding.

My baby was cranky around this age - I stopped feeding her expressed BM and BF her more than I could ever imagine.

I hopped in bed, god some DVD's and just fed fed fed.

It was not very glamourous but it did the trick.

I never felt that I expressed as much as what the baby would take from my breast.

I'm sure others can offer more pertinent advice.

Thanks for such a nice response Fizzle. I have been getting EBM by expressing at night before I go to bed (this is the bottle DH gives) and also in the night when I wake up with really painful boobs! I just put that stuff in the freezer and thats what I've been topping up with. Trouble is that has now run out.

This morning I tried to do just as you say - fed her every hour or so which is when she seemed to want it but eventually she was wriggling away and screaming so I assume I just ran out at that point. I think the reason I have just been able to express such a lot is because I missed a feed when she refused IYSWIM.

I'd love to sit in bed with her all day but it seems she doesn't

oh ok I'm sure someone more clever will come on - but I thought that the milk produced before 6am was the fattiest and most satisfying for a baby?

It's such hard work at times isn't it?

Don't worry too much about using the store of ebm,
you can produce all you need for your baby.

bump

I would talk to your health visitor. Not sure what I would do if I couldn't satify demand but they may have some answers.

hi wasabi! sorry to hear that you are having these troubles. DS gets mighty pissed off with me now if i try to talk to a friend whilst bf'ing - cue lots of accidental nipple exposure. could it be that rather than supply? have you looked on kellymom? Hope that everything else is going well with you and your family x x

Hi Bella . Hope you and your family are doing well. Thanks for replying to this. I do know what you mean about the undivided attention bit. I suspect this is why DD seems to feed better at night and when there are no other distractions. The trouble is that my DS doesn't seem to come with an off switch. It's so difficult to get a quiet, calm environment with a 2 year old being, well, a normal 2 year old.

I am assuming if I speak to a health visitor she will just tell me to use formula.

Any idea how long a 12 week growth spurt lasts for??

i think your assumption about your healthvisitor is right!

do you think it is definitely milk/supply related? could it be digestive?

i swear by sacrocranial osteopaths...worth a punt? is she pooing regularly?

tbh, i found it all got much worse at 3/4 months, think you're doing really really well...it isn't easy when a baby won't be comforted...in fact it's hellish..

OMG, Hi Wasabi and Bella (Sunnydale hijacks thread for a moment). I was just posting a new thread and caught your names. Lovely to find you both again! Sorry you're tearing your hair out, Wasabi. I don't have much advice. My dd is 5 days old and I'm proving utterly hopeless at BF'ing her. It sounds like you are trying very hard and getting upset in the process - man, that sounds familiar. FWIW I'd agree with your DH and give the odd formula - I did that with my first DC out of necessity, as she wouldn't BF for 3 weeks and it was that or starvation. It never diminished her love of BF, or my supply - it just gave me some time out, which in turn relaxed me, which in turn helped me BF. Please don't feel a "failure" if you give formula - you have done amazingly well so far and think of all the benefits you've given your baby. Be proud of yourself, not ashamed! (Sunnydale goes off to have a little sob about her own shamefaced failure in that dept...) . Best of luck xx

Hey! What a nice hijack. CONGRATS sunny!

I am totally confused by my DS too...sigh

Hey congratulations Sunny on the birth of your DD. Hope you had a good time of it -well, as good as pushing a baby out can get anyway. Fab to see you - feel free to hijack at any point. Have just read your thread about engorgement. I get this at night at times and it's incredibly painful. Yours sounds a lot worse - I hope you get some decent advice and help with regards to DDs latch so you can get things emptied out a bit!

Well I'vd been out at a friends hen do tonight and am feeling a bit less fraught. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

Wasabi my DS has been doing this LOADS today and for the first time he's been really quite frantic too. I found the only way was to take him somewhere quiet right from the start. This morning a girl friend was over and i joked about how we had to be very quiet but it was still too much for him and even when i took him upstairs i couldn't calm him down. The next feed even my eye contact put him off. i think that at this age they are starting to realise that they are separate beings or something. i dnno. hope your day is going better today x

Hi again Bella, oh no not you too! I hope your little fella is ok and feeding happily again. I am starting to think DD's problem is reflux or something. She has fed from me today every 2 hours or less which is starting to really get to me but she also spits up loads immediately after feeds and also cottage cheese type clear stuff even over an hour afterwards. Her little body goes really stiff sometimes before she burps - there is something else going on here.

oh poor her and poor you.is she not wanting to lie down either? he feeds perfectly when everything is calm and quiet. often only 2 hours after a fussy feed though. And sometimes a little bit of the curdy sick a while after but nothing straight after. am now starting to get my knickers in a twist about sel f settling but that's a whole other thread!!
Really hope you get this sorted too. Have you called a breastfeeding counsellor? I've not seen your other thread so apologies if already been covered etc

Hello again - hope you're getting on better today. I'm up and down: she manages to latch on sometimes, then others she doesn't at all and there's no rhyme or reason as to why. So I'm in that happy place (not) of feeding, expressing and topping up with formula - a full-time job!
FWIW, I had a similar problem with DD1 that was completely solved by taking her to a cranial osteopath. I know it sounds wanky, and I was very cynical, but it worked a treat.
Right, my breast pump just backed up and sprayed milk all over my dressing gown. Nice! Laters!

Hi Sunny - hope DD2 gets the hang of the old latch soon
I like the thought of a cranial osteopath just not sure if I can justify the expense...

I had so many spraying incidents early on. sooo attractive. Hope you're managing to enjoy the newborn fug despite the eating issues xx

Ahhh, so this is where you're all hiding with your nipples on display .

Have already poste donour 'old' thread Sunny - but huge congrats again xx

Wasabi - man if I had a pound for every time I have wondered what is going wrong with my feeding,,, well its bene a challenge here too! I would heartily recommend the kellymon website as it trouble shoots things for you. My DS2 has had I think a combination of wind/reflux/coping with my fast flow/fretting/restlessness etc. etc. but NEVER during the night or at his bedtime feed. I had a sepreate thread on it a few weeks back and got some useful tips (if you go into my profile you will see title).

Do you have a BF support group you can go to? I fo to one every week and they have been v. supportive. I actually bought formula a few weeks back as was so scunnered by the whole fretful feeding but DS2 refused the bottle point blank. He had bene taking EBM but I'd gottneout of the way of doing it as no time due to haveing DS1 and running a house!

Bella - lovely to see you too and hope your DS settles too..

TBH DS2 has been MUCH better these last two weeks, don't know if its me holding him more upright, or just his digestive system finally maturing.

I know how heart breaking it is though when they refuse to feed/fret. DS1 refused to feed off me in the end just point blank refused at 12-weeks (following weeks of misdiagnosed reflux being syringed gaviscon into his mouth etc.) and I went to Docs following morning and he went on fumula that afternoon , That's why i'm perservering much more this time around and do feel we're coming out the other side now.

Anyhoo, lovely to see you all and big kisses to your little ones x

Apol in advance for my spelling no time to check x

Hi Wasabi . When did your LO arrive? My DD was born on 27th Jan. Anyway.... we've hit the 12 week growth spurt and man it's a killer. Plus my DD is very tall so I think she needs gallons of milk. She also gets restless at the breast mostly in the evenings when she feeds and feeds and feeds.

Wasabi I've just found out after a quick blood test (which my GP asked me to do 6 weeks ago ) that I'm mega anaemic. Not nice at all. I'm just wondering if this could be tampering with my milk supply a little and, dare I ask, whether this could be a possibility for you too? I certainly don't want to worry you for nothing but I seriously believe there are a lot of new tired mums out there obviously struggling with anaemia. Right now I am getting through one day at the time taking my iron tablets (yukk) and feeding a very fast growing child.

Um, that 'obviously' was supposed to read obliviously.

Blue and Jardins hellooooo!

This has turned into a little reunion thread which is much nicer than the original reason I started it. DD has definitely calmed down in the last few days. I think she is prone to reflux (the constant puking is a bit of a give away) but I think that I was actully over feeding her and making it worse. I think she did need more during her 12 week spurt and I think it was initially frustration at my supply not being quick enough that made her refuse 10 days or so ago but I kept up trying to feed her loads when the spurt had passed. I stretched it out to 2.5/3 hours or so between feeds on Monday and she was really cheeful and slept better. So that's last weeks crisis dealt with. We'll see what the next one is. Bloody hell exclusive bfing is soooooo difficult sometimes.

I have wondered lately why it means so much to me and why I am being so stubborn about the odd formula bottle. If I was talking to a friend I'd say that the odd bottle among a majority of breastfeeds doesn't exactly constitute failure so don't beat yourself up. And yet I am determined to try and keep her breastfed only. Why do we do this to ourselves???

Blue I'm so glad that things seem to be settling with you on the feeding front! I'm sure both your your DS's are growing well and being generally gorgeous. It's good to know that feeding maybe in a few weeks time it might start to get a bit easier. I'm sure I have some bf support groups nearby - I must read all the bumf the HV left last time she was here.

Sunny How are you and your DD getting on? Have your baps calmed down a bit? I hope so! The whole feeding, expressing, topping up treadmill is so bloody difficult especially if you have other LO's to look after!

Jardins Congratulations on the arrival of your DD! I was 3 days ahead of you in the end. Clara was born on 24th January. She is beautiful and I am still utterly besotted. She's started to find her voice (other than crying that is) and make all these lovely cooing sounds. And she laughed for the first time the other day. Interesting note about the anaemia. I am still taking pregnancy vit pills so hope that I'm not iron deficient but its an interesting point. I will check my pack and see if it has iron in or not and if madam decides to go on strike again I might ask for a blood test.

Bella How are you getting on? Don't fret about self settling yet. Yes it is important and they do need to be gently tsught to self settle but your DS is still so little. He will gradually become more independent. I found the Baby Whisperer shush patting stuff worked well with my DS as he was super clingy as a baby but we didn't really start with that until he was about 4 months.

Ooh Wasabi Clara looks totally gorgeous on your profile. Funny you mentioned her first laugh, Angélique laughed her first belly laugh on Tuesday. It was amazing to watch and the great thingwas my other 2 DC set her off. Gorgeous.

Can you believe ayear ago we were busy conceiving our LOs? God I felt rough that 1st trimester! Of course it was more than worth it.

I'm another terrible one for feeding until they drop off instead of encouraging self settling (like Bella?). Any tips? I alway make a rod for my own back.

Wasabi have you been following Thandeka's news? She is one brave lady.

ps Clara was on our list of favourite names.

Wasabi - totally with you on the stubborn exclusively BF mindset - I am that girl and I'm wearing said t-shirt . Think its because DS2 is my last baby, was such a long road to having him, just want to do it 'right' this time oh and he is a milk monster that the thought of having to make up bottles during the night - no way!

Glad your DD has settled down a bit, I swaer it does get asier when they hit 4 months.

BTW I've started a new thread in 'post-natal' for all of us who used to be on Issy's thread in conception. Its over here. Hope to see you there for one-stop-shop advice and tip swapping x

oi having a gathering without me

Hello all and congrats on all the LO's.

Bfeeding is blimming hard work ain't it ladies.

Thandeka wanders off to drain very sore boobs with pump before sleep herself, that EBM will be combined with middle of might pumping session for DD's night feed as if bfed her in the night it would take hours and hours with a crap sleepy latch and noooo proper sleep for Thandeka (cept last night she decided to vomit up the entire 5oz all over me! Bah!)

and P.S don't worry about the odd bottle of formula- view it as the "bread" (cheapy stodgy thick white sliced) to go with the premium steak (breastmilk). An occasional steak sandwich won't do any harm at all! But sounds like you guys are doing great with the EBFing. (DD is mixed fed (25%ish formula due to few hiccups (see here with getting bfeeding started.

Thandeka I've just read your other thread and can I just say you are one determined lady . Well done you for persevering and for getting through your DD's tricky first few day sand weeks - I salute you!

And this from someone who nearly threw the towel in after 10 days as I was so engorged and in pain..

didn't though!