Please help. On the verge of giving up.

[wafflesmum]

Baby one week old today. Has significant tongue tie. I am still producing tiny amounts of milk (maybe 30 ml at most after 40-50 minutes of expressing and have tried electric, hand pump and manual expression). She lost nearly 13% of body weight in hospital and I have no choice but to top up with formula. What the hell can I do to encourage milk supply? I haven't left the house due to the non-stop cycle of trying to BF, giving tiny amount of expressed milk in a bottle, topping up with formula, then expressing again in time for the next feed. At each feed baby is stripped for skin to skin contact too. I'm shattered, frustrated and very upset. Midwives in hospital and community unable to offer explanation as to poor milk supplies and say I'm doing everything I can to stimulate production. Please help.

Um.. a few suggestions... Have you tried seeing your GP? I may be wrong but isn't it possible to have that fixed, if you wanted? What about drinking fennel tea, its supposed to stimulate production... I'm sure a tongue tie must make things 10 x more difficult... Good luck. Have you spoken to anyone at La Leche League/ breastfeeding counsellor?

And rest! (a difficult one I know!) Are you managing to snooze when the baby does? Is there anyone who can take the baby out for a walk so you can get some shut eye?

Hugs to you! There will be lots of people who will come and give you lots of good advice on increasing your supply. I know what a nightmare it can be. With DS1, I really struggled to BF him, I managed to mix-feed him till he was 6 weeks old before giving up completely. I tried everything, I went to a BF-ing clinic. DS1 was also tongue tied but not diagnosed or snipped till 3 weeks old. I spoke to a BF-ing counsellor from the local hospital every day for a few weeks. Eventually, she actually called my HV to come and visit me as she was so concerned about my mental state (I was really upset about not exclusively BF-ing DS1). She also told me not to feel guilty about giving DS1 formula as I have tried everything.

In the end, the only thing we could attribute to my poor supply was me having a pituitary tumour that messed up my hormones. DS1 is now the healthiest 2-year-old you will meet. Very clever, very funny and adorable. With DS2, he was TT again. I gave up BF-ing this time when he was only a week old. I just couldn't manage a toddler, a newborn and trying to BF. I don't feel that guilty this time about it. I know now that feeding a baby is only a small part of it. Please don't be too upset. Do what you have to do and don't let anyone make you feel too guilty about the choices you make for your baby.

Have you heard of a baby moon? This is where you take a whole day (at least) and you gather together all the food and drink supplies you will need, you and your baby snuggle up in bed together and do nothing but sleep and feed. This may well stimulate your milk production.

Is the tongue tie going to be snipped?

Expressing is never as efficient at getting milk out than an actual baby, so it's important to keep trying to establish successful latch. That's why I ask about treating the tongue tie.

You're doing fantastically well just getting this far. Well done!

Okay, you need to contact one of the helplines urgently. There is nothing wrong with your milk supply so there is no solution that will fix it. However, there IS something wrong with the transfer of milk from you to your baby.

Are you able to answer the following questions?:

Who diagnosed tongue-tie? Why hasn't this been addressed? Why are you expressing at 10 days old?

There is no reason why this can't be sorted but you do need to act as quickly as possible to protect your supply. Do you have the numbers to call?

Do you have a local bf group near you?

Breastfeeding Network
0300 100 0210

National Breastfeeding Helpline
Operated by the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers and The Breastfeeding Network
Tel. 0300 100 0212

La Leche League
Tel. 0845 120 2918

Has your baby started gaining weight again? Is baby doing wet and dirty nappies?

The expressing won't be an indication of how much milk you have. Have you tried expressing at different times of the day?

You can get back to exclusive bf from mix feeding. I did it (with help from on here). It needs to be done with care and tailored to your baby's needs though.

I hope you find the help you need. Hang in there.

waffles... get on the phone to one of the supportlines. you can do this NOW, they will be able to advise you best

if she is tongue tied have you been referred to have it snipped? if not why not? call the midwife tomorrow and insist on a referral

will baby feed direct from breast at all? if so, do this as much as possible. this will help your milk supply a LOT more than expressing ever will

somepeople really just can't express much, and it isn't an indication of how much you have. at this early stage milk supply is still hormonal, so if you can get baby latched on and feeding well then it shouldn't be a problem for the future, but you do need to see someone to get this to happen.

wafflesmum, where in the country are you? can we see if there is a local breastfeeding group near you that you could go to?

Try the tips on this website too link

I rang the NCT breastfeeding line when my baby was 2 weeks old and they were really very helpful. I'm still exclusively breast feeding at 9 weeks.

Good luck!

With regards to why we hadn't dealt with tongue tie before - the hospital where she was born flatly refused to do it and I was in for 6 days because of her jaundice and feeding issues. They said we could get a second opinion when I got out which I did on day one and we had it snipped today. The BF advisor at the unit then watched me try to feed her and agreed there is nothing wrong with her latch - the baby just still won't suckle properly and she said this is because she gets no reward for her effort. She advised an electric double pump to try and stimulate supply. Thisisyesterday- I'm in Glasgow.

at 'no reward'. Doesn't sound like a great support to me. Should be able to do better than that for you!

I found this on the BF Network site.

I'll just pop off and see if I can find anything else in Glasgow.

Well done for getting the tie sorted so promptly.

~I absolutely love the videos and attitude to bf (and the nonsense HCPs can talk about it) on this site. It helped me a lot in the early days with DD.

I've seen women use the supplemental tube system where it is rigged up to feed the baby whilst they are breastfeeding them which would then get your baby to associate breastfeeding with getting milk plus it would cut down on the amount of time you spend feeding baby.

www.expressyourselfmums.co.uk/details1.asp/ProductID/292/Medela-Supplemental-Nursing-System

La Leche League say phone the helpline to find out about local groups.

This is the page to look for NCT grouops in Glasgow. I don't know which postcode is most relevant to you.

Thanks for the link to the videos LaTrucha, they look really interesting. Off for a look...

waffles, sympathies at your predicament; it is horrible, I've been there (not tongue tie but supply problems when trying to exclusively express for premature DS2).

I love Dr Jack Newman, lots of really good advice/videos on his website. Also spend time on Kellymom.com if you can.

Where did you deliver?? My experience of BFing support in Glasgow has been quite good. I'd second trying a good hospital-grad electric pump, you can then double pump or pump form other side whilst baby is feeding. The hospital where you delivered should be able to lend you a pump.

Also consider taking Fenugreek/blessed thistle supplement alongside v freuent feeding/pumping.
Another option is Domperidone, a medication normally used for nausea/other GI problems, which can help boost milk supply when taken in much higher doses than normal.

I'd be happy for you to CAT or e-mail me (I live in Lanarkshire now, but delivered 3 childred at QMH).

PacificDogwood - delivered at Southern General. Very mixed experience with midwives in terms of sympathy/support. Have just ordered a double electric pump as recommended by the BF advisor today. Videos are useful on the Jack Newman website and will keep trying.

Hi wafflesmum
I'm also in Glasgow and I think as with everywhere, the quality of the midwife support with regards to BF is very patchy. It's important to remember that the midwives are NOT trained BF counsellors-the people on the helplines such as NCT ARE, so I would second what everyone else has said and call them for professional advice-don't be put off by the fact that you might need to leave a message for them to call you back.

Unfortunately, you might get lots of conflicting "advice" from untrained people who are operating outwith their comfort zone.

ps if the BF was going perfectly there is still a very good chance that you wouldn't have left the house so try not to worry too much about that side of things!

Hi waffles
Sorry you're having such a bad time of it.

Good suggestion from Cargirl about the Supplemental Nursing System.

I used one successfully for a while to get my supply back up and give my DS an 'incentive' to feed better at the breast. It's a wee bit fiddly at first, but really sorted things out.

Other things I tried were fenugreek, expressing, frequent feeding, rest, babymoon, switch nursing, breast compression.....

Don't forget your baby is only one week old- of course you're shattered and upset.

With some time and the right support, I'm sure you can turn this round. Stick with it.

hi waffles, glad you got the tongue-tie sorted. 2 of my babies had TT and it was horrendous feeding them

here is a link to La Leche League Glasgow the next meeting is april 20th. don't be put off by the fact that there is a specific topic there. we usually have a general talk on a certain thing before having time for individuals to talk to the leader (a BFC) for help with specific problems!

I really wouldn't be using domperidone or anything like that right now. You need to boost your supply manually.
Domperidone will make you produce more, but unless you are physically asking your body to produce more by expressing or, even better, getting baby to feed then the effects of it will be null when you stop taking it.
You don't want to use it, have tons of milk thus stop expressing/latching baby on as often and then find that when you stop your supply drops.

What you really need to do is get some help getting baby latched on and feeding efficiently, IME the best way to do this is to have someone helping you in person, who can watch what you're doing and give you tips.

Do ring one of the helplines for more advice on how to get baby to stay latched on and how to keep milk supply up though

oh and meant to say, although the next Glasgow LLL meeting isn't until the 20th you can of course phone any of the leaders and get advice whenever you want,.. one of them may be close enough hat they could visit you and have a talk through the issues in person

How are things today, waffles?

I hate to admit it, but thisisyesterday is of course right: Domperidone should be very much a last ditch attempt to boost supply if all else fails.

Apologies for v brief thread hijack: thisisyesterday, the Glasgow LLL meeting on the 20th, is that still at the same place as it would have been 2 years ago? I do not recognise the address, but am so rubbish with names/street names . I went to 1 meeting when I had problems with feeding DS3 2 years ago; tempted to go back again.

Quick update - tiny improvement in my supply but not much change. Finding it very difficult to get the baby to latch on properly all the time, sometimes she seems happy and looks like she is actively feeding, other times she fights it and gets very frustrated and won't feed from me at all. She can also appear sound asleep, wakes up when moves, mouths and roots, goes back on and promptly falls asleep again and won't feed. This continues for ages. Have contacted a South Lanarkshire breast feeding support group and someone should be coming out to see me next week. Not much better overall!

Hi, waffles, glad to hear somebody is going to come and see you and her in RL .

Just out of curiosity, who did you contact? I am currently BFing DS4 and am having ishoos as well - gah! Wouldn't mind somebody knowledgable to observe a feed...

Here is hoping for a good day!