Help, want to wind down feeding, end co-sleeping

[dorisbonkers]

This is breastfeeding and sleep related, but I know a lot of the feeding mothers in here can relate to this or may have advice, so I thought I'd try in here.

I want to wind down b/feeding my DD who is now 17 months, over the next 2-3 months. I had aimed for the 2 years, but the feeding is connected to sleeping and also getting much more grabby and scratchy and gymnastic and I'm starting to not enjoy it (hitherto I've really been fine with it, really loved doing it, save the settling to sleep, which I've always resented a bit).

I've also not had a period and I have a condition called Ashermans which took ages to sort before having DD (my first). I'd like to know I still can have periods because if I need any further treatment it could take ages and I'm 38 so don't have years and years of wiggle room to try for another child.

My husband is cool with co-sleeping but the resentment I feel on a run of bad nights settling her is bubbling over and we are fighting. We don't have sex. We get on very well and enjoy sharing her care but there's nothing left for us. No nights out or much time for us (he works part time but nights). I feel depressed by this.

DD is b/fed on demand (except when I'm at work 3 days a week and she's looked after by DH)
DD has co-slept pretty much since birth although I used an Amby when she was little for part of the night
She's fed to sleep in bed (and I sneak out), or slung to sleep for naps.
She is a grazer and although can go through the day without boob, feeds 3-5 times a night.
She doesn't sleep through. On a good night it's bed at 8.30 after a half-hour feed with one waking at around midnight, then possibly lasting until 4/5am whereup she'll be on the boob on an off until we get up. On a bad night, well you don't want to know but it's fucking horrible, but in short, 2 hours to settle, multiple wakings, me insomniac panicking she's going to wake again. No sleep for me. There's usually one night in a fortnight that I don't get sleep at all.

So. How do approach this. Night wean her a la Jay Gordon first? Or move her to her bad (single mattress on the floor in her room which I've used for the odd nap). Or move that to the foot of our bed and start putting her in it when asleep?

I have lost all confidence in my ability to make a decision so just limp from one crazy night to another.

God, you must be shattered!

When he was 11 months old, I got ds used to a bottle and then delayed his last feed by half an hour last thing, when I gave him an extra big feed. Then when he woke in the night, I just let him cry until he fell asleep himself. It took five nights for him to get the idea and he's been sleeping through since. It's not easy to do (and I waited until DH was away because he couldn't cope) and you have to be iron-willed but it worked.

Maybe because she's used to grazing, you could aim for one night feed, say 1pm, at first and then try to go all the way through.

I found the ideas in here really helpful. (Very similar situation, though DS was about a year older.) There's a book aimed at babies too, not sure which is more suitable.

I think the key is to break the connection between feeding and sleeping, so that your DD gradually learns that she can go to sleep without feeding. The book has loads of different ideas so you can pick and choose which suits your situation best.

Good luck, hope you can get it sorted.

ah,the NCSS. A well thumbed work of fiction round our place

It's a nice book, made me feel like less of a freak but nothing in it can touch the sides with our arrangement!

Has anyone done Jay Gordon? Maybe I should work on the getting her to sleep and not expect boob every single time

I don't mind if I b/feed her for longer, but this batshit wibblehutch night madness has to stop or I will lose the plot.

Moving DS (19 months) onto a mattress on the floor of his own room has helped a bit. He was mostly sleeping in bed with us after his first wake up of the night.

He has the wall on two sides and his old cot on a third side so that if he rolls around he doesn't fall out. I now sit with him as he goes to sleep there in the evening and then leave him there. I also go in and settle him there at night when he wakes up and then creep out. There is a stair gate on his bedroom door to stop him roaming the house. Sleep a bit better I think, but this could just be wishful thinking, but I definitely prefer it now as when he is asleep its not in our bed

Have you tried the toddlers book too, doris? I agree it's definitely not an overnight (haha ) solution, but maybe a starting point at least.

Do you think the bad nights are random, or can you pinpoint causes?

I think I did the "Pantley Pull-Off" for a while and then moved the bedtime feed to an earlier point in the routine and started curtailing/restricting the nighttime feeding so that he gradually got used to the idea that feeding wasn't a matter of life and death. Also had a little bed right next to ours and moved him in there once he was asleep, so that I had more space for some of the night, at least.

It's really hard, isn't it? The claustrophobia of being indispensible.

Hi Doris
I don't know how much of this long rambling post will be helpful to you but thought I'd share what we have just done as it seems to have worked really well for us. I really identified with what you said and how shattered you feel. I got to the point of feeling like I was losing the plot and really struggling with the behaviour of my older (defiant) toddler as a result. The exhaustion of 2 hourly day and night feeds for 10 months is something etched into my mind! I know my DS2 is younger than your DD however, and I take my hat off to you for putting her needs over and above your own for so long. We all reach a tipping point and I reached mine a month or so ago.

So. I stopped cosleeping, which I had been previously doing for 10 months, as my DS2 just wasn't settling. He was on and off the breast, thrashing around. One night I just had the feeling he wanted to sleep in his own cot (at last!) and he snuggled right down, it was quite unexpected. This gave me the confidence to get him to settle in his cot without feeding to sleep. It was a gradual process, I don't believe in CC, certainly not CIO. I just decided to feed him quietly at bedtime but lay him down awake. I made sure once I had put him down I didn't pick him up out of his cot again. I cuddled him, never left him, sang to him, stroked him, kept lying him down. I kept talking to him quietly saying over and over the same thing. I made sure I was smiling and tried to look relaxed (!). The first night, I won't lie to you, he was not impressed. He was cross more than upset. But I was at a point of desperation so I carried on, and it took 40 minutes for him to settle. I still fed him twice more around 11 and 3am, as thought going from 4-5 feeds to none was mean. My DH went to him if he woke inbetween feeds and he setlled much more quickly. I can't bear to hear him cry, and there has been SO little crying it's been great. After 2 nights he settled with me stroking his back in 5-10 mins, no crying. Now I feed him and my DH settled him to sleep- no crying at all. I finally have some time with my DS1 to read stories to him.

The other day DS2 slept 8 hours in a row!! But just to consistently get 4-5 hours sleep in a row in AMAZING. I still feed him twice when he wakes but he's up for 5 mins only, and he seems to really love his cot. I would never have thought it possible, but I now think maybe cosleeping made him want to feed just because I was there, IYSWIM.

Ultimately you have to find your own way, so I'd say follow your instincts, but at the same time expect it to be a little hard on you all for a couple of nights. In my heart I believe in prolonged cosleeping and breastfeeding on demand all night. But in reality I am a working mum with a baby and a toddler and I just reached a point of exhaustion where I had to start putting my needs first. I do think I'm better to everyone- me, DH, and my boys, with us all having more sleep.

I appreciate your LO is older and will probably go straight onto a matress/bed rather than a cot. I imagine that will make it harder in some ways. I think gradual withdrawal works well too, we did it with our DS1 when he developed separation anxiety out of the blue at 14 mths. Took weeks of edging nearer the door inch by inch but worth it.

Re your Ashermans condition, I think maybe if you reduce the night feeds first, so getting a gap of 6 hours, you might well find you start ovulating anyway and get your periods back. I guess if you don't then you could look at stopping BF if you feel that is right for you.
Whatever you decide I wish you well and really hope you can start all getting some rest (and you never know what else may follow

It will get easier.

hi, i have just night weaned and been amazed at how quick and painless it was - going from wakeups at least every 1.5-2 hours all night long and constant grazing from early morning, to no feeds from 9ish to after 6. Even the first night was no worse in terms of lost sleep than a normal night, and it only took 2 nights. now after 6 nights, she is not quite sleeping through but is just surfacing slightly once a night, i rub her back, she wriggles and goes back to sleep.

un-fucking-believable. i had put it off for ages thinking it would be total hell. admittedly she sprung four big teeth just before i did it, which could explain why her sleep was quite so dreadful beforehand

we are cool with the co-sleeping so didn't bother doing anything about that, and must say i think it made the transition easier for both of us - for her I am still nearby, and for me because i just have to reach my arm out to stroke her when she stirs rather than getting out of bed and going in the other room.

and i am much more relaxed about the daytime feeds now as it doesn't feel so relentless.

hang in there, there is light at the end of the tunnel!

loobee thanks for the lovely post and encouragement. Yes, our situation is a little different as she's older and a confirmed co-sleeper but there's lots you've said that gives me hope.

babyphat hi, and well done! Can I ask you exactly how you approached it? Did you feed to sleep but then NOT feed when she woke? How long did she cry and what did you do and did you cave ever?

I've a couple of times NOT fed her straight away when she's woken (once I played dead and she cried but not hideously and flung herself about then eventually slept) but if she's got really wound up I caved in. Plus I wasn't approaching it systematically and hadn't told her in advance.

My DD has just sprung 4 big back teeth too, but they're all pretty much out now.

I want to tackle it this weekend when DH off nights.

It's not the co-sleeping that's driving me insane so much, it's the constant on -off feeding and she's quite gymnastic so feels so physically draining. If I can just get some

If I can get 4-5 uninterrupted hours the world may look a better place (I meant to say)

Thanks everyone.

I had put it off for ages as thought it would be awful but decided to do it over easter. Went to bed that night and had just had enough, so went cold turkey

so when she woke I rubbed her back and wouldn't feed her. I think it helped that she'd had a busy day so was too tired to kick up much of a fuss.

The first night she woke every couple of hours and settled within 5 mins max. I didn't need to cave as she honestly wasn't that upset. I had decided that I'd had enough though so was ready for some tears. If it had been bad after say a week I might have caved but honestly after 2 days she stopped waking

I had made some progress on not feeding to sleep, if she's really tired I can bore her to sleep with stories occasionally but feeding works best and that is what I am doing most of the time. I had wondered if feeding to sleep was causing it but doesn't seem to make a difference.

I posted a blow by blow account on the sleep thread, sorry can't link as on phone.

I've been building up to stop breast feeding my Ds who is 16 mnths. Was planning to do it over Easter as the ball and chain is off but as my ds has had a cold I put it off...an excuse to put it off really as I'm dreading it. Reading these posts has given me hope that it won't be as hellish as I'm imagining. My ball and chain is useless at night - doesn't mean to be but is a zombie and not effective. We also co-sleep part of the night which is great just want to ditch breast feeding and get
more sleep.