Lack of Support & Info for Bottle Feeders (not bottom feeders!)

[Davros]

I breastfed my son (nearly 8 yrs now) for 6 months, no problem and enjoyed it. My 3.5 month old baby girl has been bottle fed from day one and I am shocked at how little info and support there is for parents (not just mothers) who bottle feed. There is nothing that I can find. It seemed that many of my early observations were met with "oh, its because she's bottle fed", e.g. she didn't lose much from birth weight, she got hiccups a lot at first, was she constipated etc. If that is so, why isn't there more info and support available? We also had a BIG debate about what forumula to use (inc soya), what bottles, how to sterilise, what positions, how to prevent wetting her clothes etc etc but NO info or suport and only any help if we specifically asked for it.......... I'd love to know about others' experiences and what they think.

I breastfed my first baby for 4 weeks, and gave up because of a few problems I had (mastitis, backache etc, and a very unsympathetic gp), I had been so confident that I would breeze with breastfeeding that I did not even have a bottle, never mind a steriliser to hand. Luckily my very supportive midwife called to the house, gave my husband instructions and he despatched himself to Boots and was back within the half hour. She stayed to supervise him making up the bottles and the rest was plain sailing.

The problem I had was knowing when to increase the size of the bottles. I have five sisters all of whom had both breastfed and bottle fed their kids, and they were invaluable.

With my second baby (10 weeks) I have now began to give him breastmilk through a bottle exclusively. It is early days but I am hoping to maintain this for at least 6 more weeks before gradually introducing formula.

My sisters two kids who were exclusively breastfed until they were 1 have both got excema and asthma as young adults. None of my other nephews and neices (totalling 30) have had either so it just shows you!

I live in N Ireland and there is such a poor uptake of breastfeeding here that they are very supportive of you if you try at all, but at the same time can be very disappointed if you give up. I was only one of 3 mums in my HVs books who was breastfeeding!

What a refreshing change to read all this about bottlefeeding; it feels sometimes like it's an unmentionable subject.

I bottle fed my ds after the first 24 hours as I had blisters on my nipples and bruised milk ducts - it was just too painful. Luckily the midwife at the hospital made me feel ok about this as she explained, quite rightly, that I wouldn't enjoy looking after him if it was agony to feed. I am eternally grateful to her.

Why aren't formula companies allowed to advertise (see the recent Birmingham Trading Standards case where SMA was prosecuted for doing so)? Why shouldn't we have information from these companies? As a bottle feeding mum I sometimes feel like the milk I give my baby ranks alongside cigarettes and alcohol, when all I am wanting to do is to help my baby grow in the healthiest way I can given the circumstances.

There is some info on why milk companies are restricted in how they can advertise/ market their products here and there is a link from that thread to another. HTH

Hope you read the links, Ghet. No one suggests you shouldn't have information about formula feeding, and it is legal for mothers to approach manufacturers to get info. What is illegal is for the manufacturers to promote themselves direct to mothers, for the reasons outlined in the discussion the links take you to.

Why would seeing an ad for formula have helped you? What helped you was an understanding midwife.

Thanks for the info, Tissy and Tiktok. However my question was not literally why the formula manufacturers can't advertise (ie the legal rulings) but what rather could be wrong with them doing so? To prevent them from advertising is to imply that their products are harmful and akin to tobacco, for instance. There is no reason why they shouldn't be able to 'sell themselves' if what they produce is helpful and healthy and the claims they make can be backed up.

I agree that help from midwives and HVs is far preferable to ads, but making mothers approach the companies for information about their products is another factor in making bottle feeders feel that they are doing something 'wrong'.

I completely disagree. I mixed fed my son but I still think - and know - that breastfeeding is by far the best option for child health and future adult health. This is not a moral judgement, it is a fact. We are talking about the smallest and most vulnerable members of our society, and I think we have a duty to promote breastfeeding and not to allow the greedy and rapacious megacorporations that produce formula to dazzle people with fabulous glossy advertising promoting something that is not as good as its competition - a product that has no megacorporation behind it. How could breastfeeding compete with TV ads, press ads, sponsorship etc. Advertising works, and it would almost certainly lower our already low breastfeeding rates. I think it would be immoral. I also think it immoral to advertise junk food to kids in kids programmes and strongly support the restriction of advertising such products. My son had his first bottle of formula in hospital as due to placenta praevia I had a lot of blood loss and my milk took a while to come in. I don't feel guilty about that, but I still think exclusive breastfeeding is best in nearly all cases and a cynical combination of big business and ad agencies should never, ever be allowed to blur that message.

Also GHet, if you look further down that thread you will find lots of reasons why advertising of formula would be a bad thing. They do enough of it sneakily as it is!

I agree about the advertising of junk foods, aloha; I remember when ing Sunny D came out we had a huge battle with dss (about 9 at the time)to convince him that fresh orange juice was better for him AND TASTED BETTER! The by stuff was plugged like mad on children's tv and in comics and free samples left on the doorstep, and they have the cheek to insist on the supermarkets putting it in the cool cabinets next to the fresh juice! Anyone who read the ingredients would know that there's no way it would go off...its so full of chemicals-if I remember rightly there is less than 5% juice in it!

At the moment they are advertising it as healthy because it has no added suger WHAT ABOUT THE **ing aspartame???

Rant over

GHet, I can understand your viewpoint, but the fact is that feeding formula has a negative impact on the health of the mother and the baby - it is not a 'healthy' product. That is not to say it should never be used, or to criticise mothers who choose to use it, or who end up using it because bf didn't work out. Of course their feelings matter.

But to allow its promotion, to spare the feelings of mothers who use formula , is to patronise them, surely. Why would any mother, however her own baby is fed, want to actively promote the use of formula? Make no mistake. Ads for formula are promotions; they are designed to make more women buy more formula for their babies, and not breastfeed. Why would any mother, however her own baby is bed, want that?

Maybe I wasn't clear but I'm not advocating the promotion of bottle over breast. Breast is best of course, but I think that the health advantages over bottle are way over hyped due to the emotiveness of the subject (the nature of aloha's message bears this out). At the end of the day there are lots of things you can do to promote the health of your baby/child and breast feeding is only one of them. If you look at the adults around you you wouldn't know how they had been fed as babies.

Advertising junk food to children is a completely different subject; to my knowledge no baby has ever demanded formula milk as a result of seeing an ad.

My point is that I would like to know from the formula companies how their products differ from each other so that I can make an informed choice. Multi national companies and advertising agencies are not necessarily the spawn of the devil and there are rules in place, usually very well kept, to avoid companies making false claims.

GHet, I disagree. As I said, I used formula, but I do NOT think the advantages are over-hyped, underplayed more like. Did you know that the long chain fatty acids in breastmilk may well be protective against depression in later life? Many specialists in the field think they are. I don't think my post was over emotional. I have looked long and hard into this subject and the more I look, the more the advantages of breastmilk are there. It is NOT a level playing field between a product marketed by huge multinational companies obsessed with profit and a product that makes a profit for nobody. Do you honestly think that advertising does not affect people's choices? All the evidence is against you, I'm afraid.

...and, the big multinational companies who are there to make a profit for their shareholders would not just tell you how their products differ- they would try and entice you to their brand, whether or not it was the best for your baby.Your HV should have that information available and won't attempt to influence your choice, unless it would really make a difference.I'm sorry, but there is no way I would trust a company whose advertising policy in "third world" countries is to dress their saleswomen up as nurses. This, in my mind is virtually identical to the advertising of junk food as something healthy.

As for adults who have been bottle fed as babies, no, you wouldn't know by looking at them, but as a group they will be less healthy than those who are breastfed. Of course, now that breastfeeding is making a "comeback" we will probably have to wait 40 or 50 years for a decent epidemiological study proving it, but I have absolutely no doubt that there will be no studies saying, "Bottle is better", and I also doubt that there will be any "bottle is no worse" studies.

I think this is a hugely complicated subject with no clear black and white facts. You can look at statistics all you want but statistics never truly compare to reality. The statistics say that if I was breastfeeding my baby it would be better for her but the reality has turned out to be that formula is better because of the problems I have, her inability to gain weight with bf'ing and my stress levels. So it's unwise just to rely on general findings.

Also when looking at research, think about the things they DON't tell you. Eg, studies show that breastfed babies are generally more intelligent. But these studies often don't point out that the higher the IQ of the mother, the more likely she is to breastfeed, so it could be largely genetic. Also mothers who breastfeed for a long time are more likely to be stay at home mothers whose sole job is to look after their child/children whereas more mothers who bottlefeed go back to work and so don't have as much input or time raising their children. It's been shown that the more input a mother has into her child's development, the more intelligent they are likely to be.

So just looking at a few studies doesn't really give you the whole picture. As this is the case, it's very hard to generalise and much better to make your own choice based on your personal situation. In my case, the stats say that my dd is more likely to get an infection because I'm formula feeding. What about the fact that if I was bf'ing she'd have picked up on tonnes of stress, which would have stressed her. Stress lowers the immune system and so she would have been more vunerable anyway.

Also, in some ways, bf'ing is supported so strongly that some people don't feel they have the ability to make a real decision by themselves. I'd been so influenced by the pro-bf'ing info that I never made the decision by myself, I just automatically breastfed. When that didn't work it forced me to make a conscious decision myself and then I was happy to choose formula, because I believe it is best for my individual baby.

This was the same effect on me that people are trying to prevent from formula companies. So why are pro-breastfeeding people/groups so against formula companies because they MIGHT use this sort of pressure, when they're using it themselves!!

I don't think that formula companies should be allowed to have huge adverts, commercials etc, because breastfeeding doesn't get that sort of attention. But I think they should have an equal status. They should be allowed to make leaflets advertising their products good points, which would only be available on request from HV's, or by the formula milk in supermarkets. Then if you want the info, it's easy to get and if you don't, it's easy to avoid. How many mothers who are committed to breastfeeding are going to be browsing the formula shelves???

I just feel that breastfeeding is advocated so much that mothers who want to consider formula feeding are put to a disadvantage that's stronger than it should be. Bf'ing is starting to be blown up so much that's it SOMETIMES appears better than it should to do. Eg, tiktok said "the fact is that feeding formula has a negative impact on the health of the mother and the baby - it is not a 'healthy' product. That's another result of the breastfeeding 'advertising'. Fomula does not have a negative impact, it just looks as though bf'ing may have a positive impact - but that's not the same thing. Eg, wholemeal bread has been shown to be healthier than white bread but no-one says white bread is unhealthy and I haven't heard of anyone who feels guilty feeding it to their child instead of wholemeal.

What's really needed is a more level playing field. Formula milk companies shouldn't be allowed to use their influence to sway people, but people should also have a free choice over which way to feed their babies, regardless of statistics and without being pressurised by breastfeeders. After all, do we want a situation like there was when bottlefeeding was advocated by health professionals, where mothers who breastfed felt like outcasts. It shouldn't swing the other way now, no-one doing the best for their baby should be made to feel bad about it, whether they breast or bottle feed.

Sorry about the really long post, I just really wanted to get a few things off my chest!!

Wobblymum, I'm not for one minute disputing that you made the right decision in your circumstances, but your point about the studies not telling you about mothers' IQs is really not true. It's very rare to find a study like that where they haven't adjusted for things like maternal IQ, socioeconomic status and so on. If they haven't, it's highly unlikely to have been published in a decent peer-reviewed journal. Look at this , for example. It's a highly respected journal, and it has hardly set out to mislead people; they've controlled for everything under the sun.

tamum - that's one of my points. These studies are so generalised (obviously they have to be) that no-one will fit them exactly, so you should be encouraged to make a decision which the research in mind, but still based on your own situation.

I'm not defending either side - I'm just saying that because each side wants to support their own cause so much, mums aren't be encouraged to make their own minds up. Even formula milk containers have bits on the side telling you breast is best, so it's hard to feel like you have the option to use formula because then you're "not doing the best".

should be "with" not "which"!!!

Wobblymum, I've followed your dilemma and I do understand, but there is no doubt. Breast milk is better. Of course it is! How could it not be? Do you really think that multinationals should have the opportunity to turn women against breastfeeding, because that is what unregulated advertising would be? I say this again, I USED FORMULA! I didn't need advertising. I think advertising of formula is unreservedly bad. It is not and never will be as good as breastmilk. When something is a baby's entire diet it is different from being part of that diet. Thank god we have regulation, I say.

I didn't do the best for my son. I didn't. It's hard and I do try to make up for it in other ways. It's not the single most important thing, granted, and it doesn't haunt me, but it is important to me. I don't believe in soft-soaping the truth, even if it hurts.

Wobblymum, great post IMHO. I completely relate to GHet's comments too.

I'm with you on this, Aloha. I only bf my first baby for three weeks, whilst I fed my other three babies for more than a year each. Inside, I know ds1 was shortchanged in the feeding stakes, I would find it patronising if it was suggested otherwise. But at the same time I tell myself that I did the best I could with the knowledge I had at the time - a comment that finally helped me come to terms with the situation more than 20 years after the event.

Aloha - I certainly don't want formula companies to be allowed unregulated advertising. I don't think they should ever be allowed TV commercials and I'm not very happy that they're allowed to advertise follow on milk so much - I don't see the point at all. I just think the information should be more easily accessible if you want it, but still able to be ignored if you don't. That's why I suggested leaflets in supermarkets by the formula milks themselves. Then any breastfeeders won't naturally go looking there but if you want to you can, and get all the info you want easily.

Even though I now feel I was totally right to switch to formula, I don't think it should be allowed to be advertised in the way everything else is. I also do agree that breastmilk is better. I just don't think the benefits should be stated so much and so strongly that mums might feel pressurised out of having a fair choice. After all, that's what the formula companies are rightly stopped from doing.

All I think should change is that mums should have more space to make the choice freely by themselves, and they should have easy access to any information they want, when they want it. No info should be rammed down anyone's throats, whether it's about breastfeeding or bottlefeeding. I think it's terrible that bf'ing rates here are so low but I don't think going on and on and on about the benefits of bf'ing is going to help that much. It's just adding more pressure at a time when less stress is needed, not more.

The facts should be available, and it should be left at that. With everything else to do with babies (eg immunisations etc), the facts are easily available but no-one goes on about either side and I think that's how it should be with feeding.

Don't think that just because I formula feed, I'm suddenly on the multinationals side (if I could buy homemade formula from a farm down the road I would!!!). I just want people to have more choice.

GHet, I just wanted to say that I was bottlefed as a child and I have had and do have health problems which may have been prevented if my Mum had breastfed me (she tried but was having problems and the Midwives told her to stop). I am with aloha here too, I didn't do the best for my DS1 either, he had his first bottle of formula in Hospital and was mixed fed from five weeks to 16 weeks. I know in the grand scheme of things it won't make much difference but it matters to me. I think it is great when Mums give breastfeeding a try but I feel sad when they are let down by poor support, whether that be Midwives, HVs or even husbands/families and I think that b/feeding should be promoted above formula as this would be in no way denying anyone who wants to buy formula the chance as we all know where it is on the supermarket shelves. When I was having problems feeding DS1 I would look longingly at the tins of formula in ASDA, I didn't need additional advertising but I could have done with the help of a good BFC.

I am really sorry that people feel "pressurised" into breastfeeding. It is what our bodies were designed for, and should be the first choice for feeding a baby, not an alternative. I think there should be a huge amount of information available to all those people who have been brought up thinking that formula feeding is the natural thing to do, but this must be backed up by excellent practical support. Before formula was available, all mothers would have the support of their own mother/ MIL who of course had breastfed. If a mother couldn't breastfeed, then a wet-nurse would do it.

Unfortunately, since the advent of formula milk, these skills have disappeared, and people who can't breastfeed thus feel as if they've failed. It's not surprising that this is such an emotive subject. Breast feeding counsellors, are available, but on the end of a telephone, not generally at the mother's side when she's starting to breastfeed. Most midwives have scant experience of the practicalities of breastfeeding, and are not confident enough to help a mother through a bad patch. If I had my way, each mother would have the personal support of a bfc until feeding was established, and be available on the telephone thereafter. I'm sure there would be plenty of people out there willing to train, if it resulted in a paid full-time job.

Wobblymum - thanks for such a measured and well argued set of contributions, you put it much better than I did.

sil is a mid-wife her baby is over 1yr and she's decide that she's not going to say that breast is best anymore because she simply doesn't belive it any more.

Me well I've done a bit of both, breast just after the birth and until I could be bothered to make up the bottles and steralise them and clean them. But I found that both worked for me.

I think that each and every parent has to choose the one that's best for them. Regardless of what that option is every one copes with different things in different ways and if you have the energy to sit up with a bottle to make sure you baby doesn't drown in the white stuff then good on you. If you like to stay in bed and just pop them in next to you and catch another 40 winks then that's great too. But not one way is right and another wrong.