HELP - conflicting advice from professionals re: BF

[NewlyDumpling]

Hi all

My baby is 2 weeks old (i'm new to motherhood and mumsnet) and she was born with light jaundice. Consequently she slept a lot at birth, she didn't demand feed and we didn't learn how to breastfeed for about 3-5 days.

My right boob has suffered with 'supply' issues as a result and despite trying to express / feed from it reguarly it's not getting any better. The left boob is ok.

Unfortunately she has lost over 10% of her birth weight and not put anything on since.

Last week the midwife recomended 2 hourly feeding day and night with 30ml formula 'top-ups' each time, but after 4 days on this regime her weight is the same (no increase).

Now they recomend 50ml formula 'top-ups' and have warned me that I probably wont ever breastfeed exclusively.

I don't understand where I went wrong and whether I can turn this around?

Any advice or support much appreciated. I'm sitting here in tears over the whole thing because I so want to feed her myself.

Thanks xxx

Oh - and I forgot to say that my Health Visitor thinks I should feed boiled water to her to flush out the Jaundice but my Midwife says it's a bad idea.

Any thoughts?

newlydumpling, congratulations on your baby. i think you need to talk to a breastfeeding counsellor. can you get to a baby cafe, or do you need bf helpline numbers?

in the meantime, bf as much as you can and then some more too. stay in bed and feed.

I can't give you advice I'm afraid but I know how you are feeling. I had a similar problem with my DS when he was born. You haven't 'gone wrong' it's just not that easy - BF is definitely more tricky than I thought. Even if you can't exclusively BF stick at it as long as you want to and as much as you can. Remember that it's a learning process for both of you. Get all the support you can from BF counsellors and good luck

Keep breastfeeding as much as possible and get to a breastfeeding group or call a BF line.

I hope Tiktok is around to give you good advice about building your supply. Your midwife should be helping you with breastfeeding - formula top-ups are not the solution. I think the water thing sounds like crapola. My baby also had jaundice and lost over 10% of birthweight which he took 3.5 weeks to regain (he was quite big to start though) and they often threatened me with formula top ups but he never needed them. Maybe there is a latch issue with one breast? Has someone looked at this?

Hope it goes well and you can get your BF problems sorted. The first few weeks are a headfuck but keep on keeping on. Congratulations.

Congratulations newlydumpling. I think Fishie is right, speaking to a bf counsellor (and hopefully arranging to see one face to face) is probably your best course of action.
Numbers here:

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers
www.abm.me.uk
Helpline: 08444 122 949
Offers voluntary mother-to-mother support, counselling and information for breastfeeding women. Helpline open from 9.30am to 10.30pm.

National Breastfeeding Helpline
Helpline: 0300 100 0212
Funded by the Department of Health and staffed by trained volunteer mothers from the Breastfeeding Network and the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers. Lines are open between 9.30am and 9.30pm every day of the year.

NCT Breastfeeding helpline
Breastfeeding Line: 0300 330 0771
The National Childbirth Trust has trained breastfeeding counsellors who can offer individual advice and support. Lines are open between 8am and 10pm seven days a week.

La Leche League
www.laleche.org.uk
Helpline: 0845 120 2918
Helpline offering advice and information on breastfeeding, plus local group meetings.

Breastfeeding Network
www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk
Helpline: 0300 100 0210
Offers free, confidential telephone information on breastfeeding and one-to-one local support

Don't lose heart, newlydumpling, with the right advice and support you can do this. The kellymom website mentioned above has fantastic tips on increasing supply so do check it out.

Best of luck

Congrats on your new bub.Yes,as above just bf as much as you can and for Gawd's sake no water! why on earth are they telling you to fill your baby up with something with no calories? I would splash the cash on a lactation consultant.My dd took three weeks to be back at her birth weight,but because that was just as the LC had predicted,and I had her written notes to back me up and give me confidence,I had support and was not advised at any point to give her formula.Google "lactation consultant" and your area and get someone round asap.Good luck with everything.

I second everything thebutterflyeffect has said.

Definitely no water - this will fill her up with no nutrients. Feed as often as possible - if this is your only child try to do nothing else - sleep when she sleeps & feed on demand; with a newborn this can even be more frequently than every 2 hours.

If you cannot get to a baby café call one of the bf lines. They are really good & will be delighted to talk to you.

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers Tel. 08444 122 949
The Breastfeeding Network Tel. 0844 412 4664
La Leche League Tel. 0845 120 2918
National Childbirth Trust Tel. 0870 444 8708

You sound determined & I have found that really helps when establishing breastfeeding

sorry cross posts with all the others - we are trying to tell you something though - give one of the helplines a call for some expert advice.

Hi

Thanks everyone, it's so nice to get some support.

Unfortunately, because of the jaundice (and also because she is lazy!) she doesn't demand to feed. Last week she slept 7 hours and I tried (quite unsucessfully) to wake her after 4 hours to feed because I was so worried. I refer to the whole thing as her 'death wish' - she really would go hours without food if I let her.

I'm (force) feeding her every 2-3 hours at the moment to make sure she has enough.

I will definately call the helpline and see what they say and i'm going to a BF clinic tomorrow so perhaps things will improve.

It's good to know that some babies take a while to gain back their birth weight although it's scary to see the percentile charts and realise she is falling down the rankings....

Thanks again
x

Ignore your HV for a start - spectacularly rubbish advice from her!

I had similar issues with sleepy baby/dropped supply/weight loss & no gain. My GP told me to top up with 5oz of formula after every feed, which to me just seemed like a surefire way to end breastfeeding. I saw a BF Counsellor who worked with me to find a better solution. I did the following:

• For the first 3 days I offered a single 5oz top up - Did this as DD was still V sleepy and there was concern about her energy levels.

• Feed at least 2-3 hourly (from start of one feed to start of next) Night feeds are important.

• Express for a short time after every (or at least the majority of) feed. I used a double pump for 5 mins after each feed, and although only got a small amount each time, it added up to at least 5oz by the end of the day most days)

• Give baby the expressed milk as a top up after one or two feeds

I also took Fenugreek to try to up my supply (see the kellymom website for more advice on that)

I did this for around 4 weeks (starting when DD was 3-4weeks old) and then gradually dropped the expressing and the EBF top ups - Think I was simply feeding on demand by around 10 weeks.

DD turned 6 months old this weekend, and apart from those few early top ups of formula has been exclusively BF. I intend to continue to BF until she's at least 1 year old.

Do see a lactation consultant or a BF Counsellor. The advice you have been given has not offered you the opportunity to try to achieve exclusive BF - It sounds like the usual "oh BF is too hard to deal with so we're just going to tell you to top up" response that so many HCPs are all too eager to dish out. A specialist may well be able to help you overcome the problems you are having.

Good Luck

Bloody charts will just freak you out, do you know if they are using the ones designed for breast fed babies by the way, rather than formula? There will be a different rate of weight gain.

I don't know if this will help but with my ds he could be quite sleepy and not demand to feed if he was too hot. It sometimes helped stripping him right down to his nappy and even rubbing his feet etc quite firmly to keep him awake and encourage to feed.
Good luck and congrats on your lovely baby x

Ooh great advice from MrsKitty I would go with that

Just read your last post - If your baby is really hard to wake in the night (DD was - I'd set an alarm to wake me after 3-4 hours then spend another hour or so trying to wake her, often having to admit defeat ) the BF Counsellor that I saw suggested giving the top up (EBF/formula) at this time - the idea being that it's easier to get a sleeping baby to 'dreamfeed' from a bottle than it is to get one to wake up enough to breastfeed. Obviously this isn't ideal, as night feeds are important for getting your supply going, but I used to express through the night too. It's bloody hard work trying to establish BF in this situation, but it's do-able if you have enough support around you.

Just want to say advice from MrsKitty is spot on.

It is bloody hard work trying to establish BF but so worth it.

I was in a similar position my baby at first seemed happy to starve.

Get along to a BF cafe and then just feed, feed and feed.

Some good stuff already on this thread - what a shame you have been told such a lot of conflicting stuff in Real Life :9

(iggy - charts absolutely not an issue here. This baby is newborn, and charts don't really 'start' until after 2 weeks/regain of birthweight really...there will be no difference in the 'old' and 'new' charts at all at this stage, and breastfed babies and formula fed babies don't really look different on the charts until much, much later, not until about 5 mths.)

OP - your baby has has a slow start and that, with her jaundice, accounts for the slow weight gain at first. Without good help to fix the bf, it may well have been inevitable that she needed formula, to prevent her losing energy to ask for feeds. Have you tried skin to skin closeness with her - 24/7 if you can?

She's having a lot of formula, and I agree with the suggestions to get good real life help to work out a way of winding down the formula in order to 'make room' for breastmilk. Good luck with this. Hope the jaundice clears...and please don't think your baby is 'lazy'. She really isn't!

( at the water suggestion - how out of date and actually rather dangerous - filling up a slow to gain baby with water )

Hi Newly

I wasn't in exactly the same situation as you as I didn't have supply issues but 2 weeks ago I had a 1wo who was very sleepy with jaundice. The hospital transition nurse instructed me to feed him every 2 hrs for at least a week. I set the alarm and every 2 hrs woke him with a full strip and nappy change (only way I could get him to at least attempt a sleepy suck). It was hardcore and tbh quite a depressing way to nurse your baby but I got used to it - especially with the support from everyone here on MN.

Just wanted to give you my support and let you know there is a light at the other end! DS is still slightly jaundiced but it's on it's way out and DS is now alert & demand feeding. You can do it!!

Hi newly
Just wanted to add my support and say my ds was jaundiced and sleepy.
To try and wake him up, I used to strip him off first, not to freeze him, but if he got too snuggled up, he just went straight back to sleep.
Keep with it and def contact a bf advisor to come and see you to work out any other issues/support you.
My ds bf exclusively for 5 months no problem after a shakey start, so you can do it too!

wow - spectacularly shite advice from health professionals !

magic advice on here

hope it all works out! skin to skin and lots of feeding can work wonders it seems. you can also try herbal tea - raspberry leaf works for me, quite visibly! i had three cups yesterday and this morning i am FULL of milk - more than DS can drink. Usually has four sides, this morning only one and a half . Herbs clearly quite strong?!?!

hope babycafe helps - helped me alot at the start, and continue to be a source of great support and good advice!

my son was tube fed at birth and I was told that I would probably not be able to breast feed. I proved them weong and exclusively breast fed for 6 months. If you want to do it then give it your best shot.
You could try expressing on the other boob while you feed, that way your body will think you have twins and will increase your supply. Might be worth a try!

Hey Newlydumpling How did your visit to the BF clinic go?

hope all is well OP. Another thing is to make sure someone is looking after you with cake and cups of tea...and lots of love and support