Do the number of daytime feed affect night-time ones?

[Littlestlass]

Genuine question here because I keep reading the exact opposite advice in books!

My DD (12 weeks) feeds every 2-3 hours during the day sometimes for 45 minutes/an hour at a time. To be honest, she has no full switch, so if I offered it she would always accept (I went through a phase - a non-growth spurty one - of feeding nearly every hour to hour and a half). She has recently started waking every 1 to 2 hours for food during the night when she was previously going 3-4 (which seemed horendous at the time, but I'm now looking back at it with fond memories!!). She is BF.

Anyway, the question is do lots of feeds closer together in the day encourage children to sleep longer at night? Or do lots of feeds during the day get them used to "snacking" (as one book I read says) meaning they want it more frequently at night?

I am really curious what people think!

Don't know, sorry, never managed to work it out myself! Everything is just a phase and it will pass...

I found the easiest was not to look for reasons for night wakings, and just accept them, as they change their routines so often anyway.

Enjoy your baby!

Unfortunately, all children are different and no one size fits all, that is why there are so many "experts" and books written on the subject!!

There is an arguement that if you stretch the time between feeds during the day, they get bigger feeds when they do feed and get used to getting their nutrients in a few "sittings". Also, not being "constantly" soothed by feeding should help them develop self soothing habits which will help sleep in the longer term.

I've had three BF babies and they were all very different!! It's worth trying something different to see if it has an impact. Try for about a week and see if you get a change.

I don't think she has all the answers for every baby but I've always found GF's increase your breast milk supply routine useful when making changes and can help to ensure the feeds you do give during the day are big ones.

Good Luck.

DeirdreB That was brave, mentioning GF round here! I like the idea of trying for a week and seeing what happens, but as DD varies dramatically from day to day (easily napped for 4 hours yesterday, currently fighting to get her to go longer than the 20 minutes she's decided on despite the fact she's bloody knackered!) I suspect it wouldn't work in my situation!

BTW I was less asking for advice in my specific scenario (just giving it so people realised why I was asking!!), but more interested in what others have found works for them.

For most of the Mum's that I've worked with after the first two weeks the Mum feeds 3 hourly during the day for up to an hour and then not more than six hours at night. The first two weeks are demand fed. So would aim for
7am BF
10am BF
1pm BF
4pm BF
7pm BF
10pm BF
then fed during the night when needed at least once, maybe twice, not usually three times.

I don't limit the BF's if the baby is having a hungry day or going through a growth spurt we will adjust. If baby doesn't want to eat after three hours will leave for another hour. If mother has to go out or wants to plan something with older children we will also adjust feeds.

I've found that sticking to the three hourly feeds mean the babies are sleeping from 11pmish-7amish around 9-12 weeks. I do support a lot of cluster feeding if baby needs it, when I know many maternity nurses would be inclined to offer EBM or formula.

We usually keep the 3 hourly routine until baby is sleeping the majority of the night then will experiment up to four hour feeding. Usually have the dream feed although not all parents want this. From my experience there is no perfect way but most of my mother like to have some sort of routine so they not what to expect each day and feeding forms the base of the routine. Hope that helps.

Oh and whoops to answer you question I think a baby needs alot of feeds in 24 hours. So at least 12 for a new born and decreasing to 7-10 when baby goes longer. I think if a baby wants feeding less than 2 hourly then perhaps the positioning is not right or the baby is not hungry and rather wants cuddles in which case they should be given. If a baby is "snacking" during the day I think overall it shouldn't influence night time sleep as it's the build up of milk during the day that enhances night time sleep. Although if a baby is over tired that is likely to influence night time sleep.

I've never being with a mother that wanted a fully demand fed baby so can't offer a rounded opinion. But I expect that if a baby goes longer than 4 hours during the day then they will have to wake up at night to feed.

If you're after anecdotal evidence, here's mine; dd is 12 weeks old today. I feed on demand during the day and she is very snacky. She goes down at 9pm and usually wakes me for a feed around 6am. Sometimes later. This has been her routine since she was around 7 weeks.

My DD did feed more during the day when she started sleeping through the night, but not sure if it works the other way (i.e. not sure if you can 'force' them to take more in the day in order to go through the night). However is it possible that she's feeding to get back to sleep in the night rather than actually hungry?

Interested to read nannynz's comments, as that is more or less what I have done with both DCs i.e. encourage 3 hourly feeds during the day up till about 10pm, then demand feed through the night, and adjust as necessary for growth spurts or 'hungry days'.

Both of mine went through consistently from 11pmish - 7am from about 8 weeks.

I think it does depend to a large extent on the baby as to when they become capable of sleeping through. It's not just the 'have they had enough milk' issue, it's whether they have learnt to settle themselves back to sleep comfortably (assuming they are not hungry) when they surface into lighter sleeps during the night. Some babies get the hang of this earlier than others IYSWIM, and both mine just seemed to develop the knack of doing it early on.

I feed on demand and my 15wo DD feeds every 2 hours without fail during the day. She would sometimes sleep through feeds but no longer!

Feeds have usually taken 30-40 mins but today she has been full after 20 mins. The last feed before bed is usually longer 60 to 90 mins. She goes down between 8 and 9 and usually wakes for a feed anytime between 3 and 5. She will then go back to sleep for 3 hours - almost to the minute!

Don't know whether her frequent feeding during the day has any effect on her night time sleep - think every baby is different really.

I really agree with nannynz and amberflower. Also someone once said to me that at some stage babies really don't 'need' to feed in the night any more, they just like it, find it comforting or get into the habit...sort of like adults - we could wake up for a midnight feast every night too but we don't need to eat at night unless we haven't eaten enough in the day. The difficulty is in trying to work out when they genuinely don't need the night feeding any more...if only they could talk

WOW - I'm definitely going to follow what you have all said. DD took 20 weeks to sleep longer than 3 hours at night and DS 20 months to sleep through (although he had health issues)!!!

So plan is to feed every couple of hours in the day. I too had worried that it could make then used to a 2-3 hourly feed day and night, rather than fill them up.

this worked for me until DD2 was about 20 weeks; since then, she wakes frequently in the night wanting food.i have always fed on demand. now,at 7mo, she usually wakes about 3 times a night for a feed. I'm glad i got that patch of sleep in the middle though!

Well, after doing nothing different during the day DD slept for 9 hours last night (not all in one go) thus again proving babies like to keep you on your toes! My DP has instigated a "if it's less that 2 hours since you woke up, you aren't getting fed straight away" tactic and he's the one settling her back down and she's generally going down without a fuss...

But I really am interested to hear everyone's opinions on how daytime feeding affects sleep - given that they are the main things all the books bang on about.

DD1 had 9 feeds a day (I never worked out that she was tired not hungry) and slept 10-7. DS gets about 5 feeds a day and wakes 4 times (age 10 weeks). You can do the maths....

BTW littlestlass - were the more frequent night feeds shorter? My DS (10wks) is doing the same but because he's only feeding for 5-10 minutes and I then can't get anything else into him at each night waking it makes it harder to know if the next waking is hunger or not.

The night feeds vary dramatically to be honest! Sometimes 10 minutes (so I'm convinced she is more wanting the sucking to go back to sleep than the food), other times an hour. The hour feeds with hour gaps inbetween were what brought it all to a head - I literally cannot survive on that little sleep.

I know what you mean about the ten minute feeds - my mum said "well she obviously isn't hungry then" but as you say, when they wake up an hour later, is that hunger or not? What mysterious bundles of screamyness they are...