Massive baby, breastmilk not arrived yet...getting desperate!!

[Susarella]

I gave birth to my 10lb 10oz DS 3 days ago by emergency C section after being induced for 3 days. DS was 15 days overdue by the day he was born. Am trying to breastfeed but only producing colostrum but my full mulk has not arrived yet. Nipples are excruciatingly painful, DS is ok during the day, sleeps alot and feeds ok (about every three hours or so) but from about 9pm onwards he wants to feed constantly and won't settle at all. Nipples are so painful and feel like he is on my boobs for hours with no rest for either of us!

Midwife has said that he will need more feeding than most newborn babies due to his size and that latch is fine - she has suggested a formula feed at night as a supplement only until milk comes in properly but really want to carry on breastfeeeding.It's getting almost unbearable with the pain and have not had much sleep since he was born - maybe four hours max and that includes catnaps during the day between feeds. Am a bit aneamic which I know will affect milk coming in but eating loads of fruit & veg and drinking as much fluid as possible. Am getting very desparate as I don't know how to get through the nights when he wants to feed constantlty and I am in pain!!

Any suggestions,comments or hints would be most gratefully received!!

Some people may not think this is the best idea - but when I had DC1 I used nipple shields for a couple of weeks from day 5 or 6. Just long enough to give my nipples a chance to heal and for us both to get a hang of what we were meant to be doing. The shields did make it much less uncomfortable to feed.

Also, keep some grub and a pint of water by your bed to keep you going during night feeds. I think raisins and wholegrain cheerios are meant to be high in iron and would be easy to nibble on.

It is hard just before milk comes in. Mine took 3 days but I know it can be longer after cs. I would say stick with it, let him suckle as long as he wants. Do you have lansinoh? It is great stuff.

I don't really see why his weight would make him need more milk, it's not like his stomach will be any bigger than any other newborn as it's not been used before, he'll just have more reserves than others to draw on! That is just my thoughts though, I am no expert.

Congratulations and do try to get a bit more sleep - every time he does if at all feasible. Hope your milk arrives soon!

First of all - congratulations!

A big baby can thrive on just breastmilk. You do not need to supplement with formula.

If the feeding is painful, then the latch is not OK. Despite what the midwife says. With all the best will in the world, midwives are rarely experts in breastfeeding. You need to speak to trained supporters from any (or all) of the breastfeeding charities. Click on the Breastfeeding link in "Babies: useful Mumsnet stuff" on the right of this page, and scroll down a bit to find their phone nos. You can call them as often as you want. You can also go to any of their feeding support groups for face-to-face help.

For now, though, relax, and get to know your baby. An advantage of being big is that he has good resources - he won't starve! Can you get naked with him? Undress him down to nappy, undress your upper half, and get into bed with him. Lots of skin-to-skin and feeding him whenever he wants.

By having him in bed with you, you can nap whenever you need.

Don't expect him to settle at night - he doesn't know what night is, yet.

I'm no expert by any means but I'm pretty sure that if you want to establish your supply, supplementing feeds at this age isn;t the best thing to do as you're body sees it as a feed it doesn't need to produce iyswim? And then lowers the amount it produces. Any BF advocate wouldn't advise this so early on (bottle of formula) for the prev stated reasons

Feed as much as he needs, and let him get a nice strong supply going

Congrats btw on your big bouncing boy btw!

Hi,

No great advice, just posting to say hang in there. You sound like you are doing all the right things.

I could have posted the same thing 2 yrs ago - 101b 13 0z baby post section, dreadful problems getting breast feeding going and lots of people pushing formula.

It takes time and the baby feeding a lot to get feeding established - and it is very difficult when you are really knackered after a labour, section and being anaemic too! It amazed me how many well meaning people made comments about how such a big baby needed formula top ups - to be honest if you want to carry on breast feeding carry on as you are. Feeding on demand (always seems to be most of the night initially) get someone to check the latch which may not be helping sore nipples. However I think feeding can be pretty painful whilst getting established whatever you do.

Lots more people will come and give good advice here - it was mumsnet and kellymom (a great breast feeding site) which kept me going.

Good luck - you sound like you are doing brilliantly although you don't feel it!

Amount of sleep sounds normal with a 3 day old, to be quite honest. Mine were both on the small side (6lb 10 and 7 lb3) and behaved just like you describe until the milk came in, then ds1 would settle at night, and ds2 needed to cosleep.

If your nipples hurt, something is wrong, get a breastfeeding counsellor to check your latch again. You'll be able to deal with the lack of sleep much better if your nipple don't hurt.

And I thoroughly recommend lansinoh as a nipple restorative

i'd second the advice on here - unlikely to need formula at only three days in even a big baby has a stomach the size of a small marble, i'm sure!

my ds fed loads! really long feeds too - 45minutes each side during first few nights - i was a bit doolally on the drugs after the section - i didn't realise it was that long, but looking at my feeding tracking thing they gave me in hospital, he had a total feeding frenzy!

i actually thing that smaller babies need to feed more often cos their tummies are even smaller! every 1-2 hours in some cases, but clearly your ds can go 3 hours which sounds good! and like others said he's a big healthy baby so he will have reserves.

i think my milk came after 3/4 days (emcs after loooong labour) and now he is 5 months, ebf and a chunky monkey! keep going .

milk will come eventually! don't panic. i used to bite muslins to counteract the nipple pain at that stage. and take paracetemol and use lansinoh. i didn't try nipple shields, because i was having hand joint inflammation and couldn't fumble with them.

my experience of big baby, ds2, 11lb 11oz, vd, was that he fed way, WAY better than ds1 ever did at 6lb 13oz. where the first baby fed every 2 hours day and bloody night for months, ds2 could really fill his boots and go about at least 3 hours between day feeds and 5 between night ones from when milk came in. he was also a tremendously strong feeder, adn could finish a feed in 30 minutes within a week of milk coming in. which was such a relief compared to ds1's hour long sit-and-sip marathons. i could stil really feel ds2 pulling on the nipple hard during these huge quick feeds, but it didn't hurt 2 days after the milk came in.

good luck.

my sis had her baby 3 weeks ago at 10 lb 8 and he's doing really well just on breastmilk. Keep doing what you're doing and your milk will come in and you'll be fine feeding him just b/m. No need for formula at all (which will reduce your supply anyway!).

The point about you getting less than 4 hours sleep at a time is 100% normal. sorry! But it gets easier and you'll cope better.

ooh, sorry. nights. that's your real thing isn't it, poor woman you sound knackered. i don't know. with ds1 life was like you describe. i did this both times, though ds2 was much much easier to convince than ds1:

1. all daytime naps in daylight
2. lots of eyes open daylight outside, often just sitting out back with the baby. feeds there for spring/summer born ones!
3. plenty of normal household noise during the daytime.
4. hushed silence and darker baby room from 7-7
5. i gave up any hope of sleep, ever. then every little doze was a win, a bonus. helps to have head accepting of it all, while working vigourusly to improve things
6. do't get stuck into a cycle of panicky wondering whether child will sleep, just leave, go about your business and what will be will be. if you go back 2 minutes later, its not a fail.
7. sling when needed, if able.
8. i made fenugreek tea and drank it (mmm, curry tea). it made me feel positive to do positive stuff, this is a common ingredient in mother's milk tea, which you can also buy. it is certainly no harm.

i hope you had a better night. stick with it if you can. you don't really feel like you get out from under a breastfeeding newborn for a month or two tbh. sort out books, mags, dvd, tv, phone, people to talk to. never EVER sit in front of particulary dirty patches of the house. you will seethe with resentment at life as you stare at dust bunnies rolling while you can't do anything about them not that you want to anyway because oh didn't you used ot have a life? /end rant stare at lovely baby instead and nice clean patches of house around you and all will be well, enjoy!

All that feeding he is doing will make your milk come in. Reluctant to tell you to ignore midwife but a bottle of formula seems likely to achieve the opposite of what you are aiming for.

I had a big baby (10lbs 3oz) 7 weeks ago by section 16 days overdue and she fed very much as you describe. The midwives would come around asking if she'd had a feed recently and how long it and I'd say "no, she's STILL feeding from the last time you were around 3 hours ago". They thought I was lazy for nit getting showered until the afternoon but I barely gad time. My nipples did get a little sore, but I still had nips of steel from dd1, so it didn't bother me. Do get help with latch though.

Your milk will be in soon. Can you sleep on your side?I found this painful but was basically forced into it with dd beside me so she could feed as and when. I did get some sleep though.

It's tough being in hospital without partner support at night and midwives giving contradictory advice.

You're doing great. Soon you'll be home with your milk in, although might have to get used to catnaps for a bit. Use plenty on lanolin on nipples, it will get better

Oh you sound so stressed. Your MW is nto helping either.
My BM didn't come in for 5 days after my CS, mainly (I am convinced) from being in strange environment (hospital) It came in a few hours after I got home.

He won't have much concept of day and night yet I am afraid, that is learnt over next few weeks so sleep sounds perfectly normal.

Also feeding all evening is really really common, I could go through archives and link you loads fo threads of people worrying about this but really, it is just him either stimulating your supply (now) or ina few days he will be doing it to up your supply.

The best advice I can give you is to have a small bag nearby at all times with TV remotes, snacks, bottle of water etc, sky+ a load of decent telly and set up camp on the sofa for the duration.
DONT DO HOUSEWORK, or washing, or cooking, unless you absolutely have to (ie, are starving, not if the HV is coming round) Be kind to yourself and take it easy. It will seem endless but I promise, this too will pass.

just wanted to add my support, it sounds like you are having it tough.

please do get help with your latch. Feeding through sore and painful nipples is miserable - I gave up feeding DD1 really early on because of it. Are they damaged at all or just sore? Ice on them beforehand can help a bit (not sure if this is advised but I did it and it took the edge off) and take some parecetomol. I also chomped on toffees to have something to bite down on when she latched on! Is the pain just when he latches or is it constant?

Newborn babies generally feed a lot in the evenings. My 3 week old DD2 is really settled in the day and goes 2 or 3 hours between feeds but come about 6PM she is on and off for the whole evening. It is just what they do and I second what someone else said about just feeling like you do nothing else for a couple of months other than feed a newborn.

The much-evening-feeding is very very usual: he is teaching you how to make milk.

Introducing formula will do the opposite of what you want: it will reduce your milk supply.

I absolutely echo Lansinoh. It might seem expensive at £10 but a tube will last pretty much forever (I am still on my second tube at nearly 21m bf).

I also think that if it's that painful after the first toe-curling minute then your latch needs sorting.

Alternatively, if it's really that bad, you could consider expressing and using a bottle. EBM is 99.99% as good as "normal" bf.

Good luck xxx

you are doong eveything right and it is all normal
please dont supplement as it will not do what you want to do whcih is encourage the making of milk
which is exactly what all this feeding is doing
the lack of aleep before milk comes in and the pain is all to be expected

please keep going, it wont be long before it all settles down when you milk comes in

I agree that a bigger baby will take longer to waste away! You're going great, and congratulations.

My DS was big at 10lbs, milk came in around day 4 but he fed like a demon. One good thing about big babies is that once the milk comes in and it settles they are generally very efficient feeders with strong sucks I'd get a breastfeeding counsellor to recheck your latch just in case, also second (third!) Lansinoh - the 'discomfort' will settle.

With regards to having no clue between day or night that is very normal, would recommend the quiet feeds at night and more stimulating feeds during the day then he'll learn over time the difference.

Good luck, the early days are the pits but I fed both of mine til 15mths despite the difficulties of the early months so it can be done

oh you're doing really well hang in there

I had 10lb 9oz DS (you beat me by an ounce!) by em CS in Nov 08 () and could have posted your op!

Keep going - DS was tongue tied which made feeding v painful until it was snipped, ahs anyone checked for that?

BabyG was exclusively BF until he weaned at 6m then carried on BF until 11months - he stayed huge

hi my dd is 3 weeks now but had the same hell as you- feeding every hour and a half for 40 min! no sleep etc.... milk didn't come in till day 5. persevered with it (only a few days looking back) and now its more like every 3 hours.... you are doing brill, hang in there

Thank you so much everyone for your kind words - feeling loads more positive today. I have a stock of Lasinoh kindly donated by my sister in law. DS slept for a good four hour stretch last night so feel better today & got a nap this PM.

Will definitely see a breastfeeding specialist as nipples are now looking pretty scabby so there must be something up with the latch. will keep persevering - breasts pretty engorged and hot so I think milk is on its way!!

Thanks again everyone.

Love

Susarella

Agree with everyone else re getting your latch sorted.

Also I would offer a breast every 1-2 hours in a baby this new, never allowing him to go more than 2 hours without a feed, even waking up to feed (of half asleep dreamfeed) the more he sucks the quicker it will bring your milk in.

I had a terrible time with my first baby as she was very sleepy and didn't want feeding that often so I assumed she was fine and left her for 4 hours or so between feeds and she got very jaundiced and wouldn't latch. Next time round I had a big 9lbs odds baby and fed her every 2 hours for the first 5 days and what a difference.

How are you feeling today, Susarella?

Don't forget - colostrum is concentrated breastmilk...you don't need lots of it.

Get naked and cosy and get a BF Counsellor.

Good luck and congratulations (DS 10lb 3 and DD 10lb)