Advice please for bf 4 month old

[scarlotti]

DS2 is 18 weeks and is ebf apart from a bottle at 10:30pm which is formula. He's 16lb3 and on the 75th centile.
He's always been pretty efficient at feeding and feeds last about 5-10 mins on one side and were spaced about 3 hours apart. Used to wake once in the night around 3 or 4am but that increased to twice from 12 weeks. Feeds were roughly - 7am, 10am, 1pm, 4pm, 6pm, 10:30pm, 2am, 5am. The 5am and 7am feeds aren't necessarily big ones, and sometimes he throws in an extra one in the evening.
Am fine with all this.

Over the last week he's been crying after feeding but won't take more, and is now hungry again after 2 hours. He used to nap for 45 mins at a time, but now that's dropping to 30 mins and it seems he's waking as he's hungry so it seems to be affecting his sleep.
He's just fed, and I perservered with it after the initial 5/10 mins changing positions etc. and then changing sides and he seemed to take more. He still cries at the end though. He also brings up watery milk after a feed - always has.

Is this usual? Can I/should I be trying to increase the amount he's taking so he has longer stretches and so can nap for longer?
He's now wanting to sit propped up all the time, hates being on his back or tummy. Could this be he's more alert and that's the issue? Or a big developmental thing going on?

Any help/advice gratefully recieved. Hv has said I could wean as he's showing all the signs, and he's happily accepted some pureed fruit/veg, but I'm keen to make sure milk feeding is working before we go full on weaning.

Thanks

If he's recently increased the need for more milk, he's probably having a growth spurt (hence why he's ready for more milk sooner than expected and why he's happy to take purees) and so will be more demanding. If you carry on doing the fab job you're doing, then once he's increased your milk supply to cope with his demand, it'll even out a bit more and his pattern will settle down a bit.
There's always a bit of a lag (day or so) when baby is demanding more milk and trying to get your supply up, until your breasts have caught up and regulated supply. This is a time when some mums think they don't have enough milk but they do so just keep feeding on demand and it'll be fine.

Could be a stage he's going through, but feeding more often could indicate he wants to get your supply up for a growth spurt.

If he has plenty of wet and dirty nappies and is settling and gaining weight, then all is more than likely fine. Could it be wind? Has he changed his style of feeding or latch?

You might want to be wary of your HV's advice to wean. The recommendation is from 6 months - any earlier will be a faff for you, preparing and spooning in food that gets spat out or left, and could cause problems for your DS. Without wishing to come over all Mumsnet, have you read about baby-led weaning? I've done it both ways, and blw was loads easier.

Well done for getting so far with your bf!

Yes - agreee that blw is the way to go. Wish it had been more prominent when my dcs were babies and I truly think their eating fads are due to me not following blw.
Your DS is on the 75th centile -no worries there for weight, unless he's losing?

Thanks for the replies.

luciemule - he's not losing weight I don't think, he did drop slightly from his line at this week's clinic which is a first but a negligible drop so I'm not worried on that score.

lastyearsmodel - I wonder if it is more wind. Could that be from the purees I wonder? I was told anytime from 17 weeks is ok to wean and the WHO paper on weaning agrees with this. I was told that 6 months was the latest, and 17-20 weeks was optimum to start. I do think the hv's have conflicting advice though.
I've heard of BLW but not really sure of the ins and outs, any good books?

One of my concerns is that I have to go back to work when he's 5.5 months and I was really hoping to get him weaned before then so I can do it. I didn't think I'd be able to do BLW as I won't be at home with him - am I barking up the wrong tree?

The advice changed in England between DD (3.9) and DS (2). There's some good info here www.eatwell.gov.uk/agesandstages/baby/weaning/#cat227288

6 months isn't the latest weaning can take place; in fact, some cultures don't give solid food until 9 months or after. The most useful advice I got was 'food is fun before one' - would have saved my sanity had someone told me while I was weaning DD! Nutritionally, your breastmilk is the most suitable and calorific thing your DS can have; other food gradually takes over by around 12 months or older.

BLW is developmentally led - babies who are ready for food can sit up by themselves and pick finger foods up off their high chair tray. It all makes sense, really.

BLW info - Gill Rapley, the HV who first popularised BLW has recently published a book, but do a search on here and there's loads of info.

I guess your approach to weaning might depend on how your childcare provider is willing to do it, but could you start with breakfast or another meal your DS will have with you every day? BLW is really just finger foods and is actually easier for everyone than purees, so I can't see why childcare should have a problem with it.

Hi scarlotti. I'm afraid you've been given crap advice! 17 - 20 weeks is categorically NOT the best time to wean!

The World health organisation actually states

"Infants should be exclusively breastfed for the first six months [for] optimal growth."

I would strongly recommend dropping the purees and forgetting about weaning for 5.5 months.

Instead, if you need to you back to work, it would be a good idea to get your DS used to a bottle (with EBM or formula) so that when you go back to work your childcare provider can give DS milk.

Then, when your DS is 6 months, you should start introducing solids. Any childcare provider worth their salt should have experience of weaning.

We did BLW from 6 months and it was really good.

I highly recommend this book

Good luck

Thanks, will get that book I think and have a read. Am also going to see the GP this week so will ask his advice whilst I'm there.
Luckily he already takes a bottle so will be fine on that side of things.
Am sure my childminder would be ok with it, I would prefer to wean him myself though but not if it's not good for him.

"I would prefer to wean him myself though"

As a compromise could you perhaps prepare the foods ahead of time that the childminder was giving your DS maybe?

Or perhaps take some time off work - say 3 days - and then start weaning on a weekend. Then you would have 5 clear days of introducing the first foods before handing over to the childminder?

By the way (it may not be right for you, and please forgive me if I'm overstepping the mark, but ... ) did you know that you don't actually have to give up BFing when you start work? You don't even have to express in the day at work either. I don't know if it's the same for everyone, but I feed DS morning and night, and I work during the day. This has worked really well for us, and actually I really value it as a way to reconnect with DS in the evenings when I come home.

Weaning is a process that takes a long time. DS is 15 months and is a great eater, but as he still drinks milk I wouldn't say he is 'weaned' but still 'weaning' IYSWIM.

HTH

gp is unlikely to much help re weaning or breastfeeding tbh. they are barely trained, if at all, in either subject.

blw is perfectly do able with childcare. i wrote this a few years ago (under an old name!) about how it worked for me with dd. you can still start it off yourself anyway by doing breakfast and evening meal plus all meals when your baby isn't in childcare.

fwiw i'm knee deep in ds's growth spurt right now with 16wk old ds. i'll just be going with the flow, increasing the breastfeeds, swapping sides over and over, and generally suffering the night times! then once he's around 26 weeks he can start playing with broccoli and bananas like his sister did

lowrib - not overstepping the mark at all was planning to keep the morning and evening feeds going after going back to work and have a freezer drawer full of ebm which I'm hoping will take us through the day feeds for quite a while. I guess I just want to be the one that introduces the food and the concept of eating, but as you say if I give the food that he's to eat then I'm still 'in charge' of the process as it were. I have to provide food anyway. I think it's tied up with feeling that as his mother, this is my job to do

ruddynorah - thanks for that link. Am very impressed that she ate a banana herself at 10 months but then I've done the 'traditional' route with the other 2 dc's and so this is all new to me.

Can I ask you both then, at what age did you get a full nights sleep? I can handle one night waking if I'm working full time but not the 2 or 3 that I'm currently getting. I know initial solids doesn't make for any more sleep (DS was about 8 months) but as he was formula fed he was only waking once.