Problems with feeding at four months

[Hyena]

My DS is 17 weeks tomorrow. He's been exclusively BF up to now and in an ideal world I'd love to continue but feeding is really getting me down at the moment.

We're had problems with feeding from day 1 - latch problems, green poo, sore tummy etc.

Last week we had a few days where he fed non stop (growth spurt?) but for the last two days he has cried every time I've put him to the breast. He arches his back, pulls away and acts as though I'm trying to poison him. When I get him latched on he's very easily distracted and pulls really hard on my nipple when he hears a noise/spots something out of the corner of his eye, and this makes feeding in public impossible.

We've always had explosive poos - green up until recently but now yellow and up to his shoulders. This happens up to four times a day. He's always pulling his knees up to his tummy and grunting and has some sort of eczema ....allergies has been suggested but would these present in this way?

It sounds like you've had a really hard time.

Some of the pulling away may be down to him being more interested in the world around him. What happens if you feed him in a dark room, does that help? Doesn't help with feeding in public, though!

Do you have good local bf support? Just in case the latch needs fiddling with (sometimes it goes wrong as they get bigger - although I don't think bad latch would cause most of this), or so you can get some extra support?

DD went through a very distractible stage at around this age

drove me batty

she did the back arching and nipple pulling

it did settle down but if i was at home, i fed her in her room away from the telly and her older brother and facing a wall (!)

if i was out, i tried to cover her up with a shawl so some distractions would block out

My DD also has continual green poo - still waiting for her results to come back from the doctor .. they are also quite frothy.

ruby I would be really interested to know what the results are.

My baby also had explosive green frothy poop - but it is now back to chicken korma.

hyena - well done so far - keep up the good work.

I am with you on the growth spurt business - and I am finding it hard to bf - my baby is much more interested in the big wide world.
I am completely knackered - beyond belief - I think the 4 months of lack of sleep are now catching up on me.

I am just getting through day by day and trying to keep going too.

Thank you all for responding. The night feeding always seems much easier (if I ignore the tiredness). If I keep the room dark and quiet and he's tired then he feeds well. I'll try more feeding like this.

Cockney - My friend's Mum is a BF support worker. She came to see us a few times when the green poo started and we worked on the latch - he doesn't like to open his mouth wide enough to latch on. If I get him latched on correctly he'll pull to end of my nipple once my let down starts and finds his way back there no matter how many times I try to reposition. I'm not sore and he's been gaining weight well (although not had him weighed for a month)so I've given up stressing about it.

Ruby - How long has the green poo been going on? How old is your DD?

Zippy - We were up lots again last night and then DD woke up at 4 ill so I'm with you on the exhausted front. Day by day is what I keep telling myself because I'm not ready to stop yet.

DD is 22 weeks

we are hopefully getting the results in 10 days time

she doesn't seem unwell at all just her poo is the most awesome colour! this morning's were bright green

I had major wobbles at this age twice.I could only feed in motion (walking about or birthing ball) or when she was super tired with DDs at this age because they were so distractable and/or resistant. It passed in about the time it took me to to manage to buy bottles and formula luckily.

Ruby - we had the same; sometimes lime green and other times khaki. Is she gaining weight well?

Beehive - Thanks. It's helpful to hear of people who have come through it.

He's been feeding better today and we've had 4 dirty nappies but only one was explosive. My mum gave him some Ashton and Parsons teething powder this a.m. and swears this is the reason for it. I can't see that one dose would make any difference and am sad not to have given him his first taste of something other than breastmilk (overprotectice or what?!),

I'm so glad to read this - DS is 17 weeks tomorrow and your post perfectly describes him! I was getting so worried, and although I'm sorry to hear the rest of you have struggled too, its a relief to know it seems normal.

He also seems very generally ratty at the moment, its a nightmare.

It does sound like he is teething to me - they can teeth for monthe before any teeth cut through! MY DS always had really bad nappies when teething - his bottom used to end up bleeding (Metanium is good for that by the way, or a barrier of vasaline) Ashton & Palmers powders are good when they have sore tummy with teething but I also like the Teetha ones - they have different ingredients & seem to numb the pain a bit better.

The other thing I wanted to suggest was although you havent had any tests results back regarding the allergies, but you could try cutting out/reducing diary in your own diet. My friend had to do this with her DD.

ds used to have radioactively green poo - and kind of stringy sometimes? - is this what your is like? it calmed down the bigger he got - i think he was getting alot of foremilky milk as i had quite a lot of milk so he was always taking milk from a full breast. as my supply has adjusted, and my boobs are much 'emptier' his poo has got yellower . dunno though - just a guess.

SirBoobAlot - I'm an avid reader of the November thread but have never posted. I think our boys were born on the same day - 11/11? Mine is very ratty too - let's hope it is an age phase thing.

YoMoJo - I'll have a look at those Teetha ones. Not heard of them before. I thought of illiminating things from my diet but because he's been gaining weight well (and usually they don't with an allergy) I've not tried it yet.

Ruby - Sometimes it was stringy but mainly full of mucus. BF support suggested it could have been down to the foremilk he was taking in and asked me to try expressing off an ounce before I fed him - I didn't do this because I figured my body knew what it was doing (and because it would have been time consuming with DD)..maybe my supply has adjusted too .

DD is gaining weight - following the 25th centile exactly

she is teething as well

so am sure the horrid nappies are here to stay

have thought about whether it is a foremilk issue as i have a very abundant supply but am not convinced

am sure when i wean in a couple of weeks or so it will change again

Yes they were What time was yours born? You really should post, they're all so lovely, and we're getting together in a few weeks, would be lovely for you to join us!

Rubyslippers - I'd try not to worry if she's gaining weight well. When did it start?

SirBoob - He was born at 2.08pm - what about yours? I followed it from day one .. I was due on 30/10 but knew I'd be overdue and the last to deliver on the October thread. I was going to post on a few occasions but online time is limited these days and I'd never have time to post as well as read.

0220am Congrats! Have you had comments about the date? A few people have said to me, "What a beautiful baby! Shame about the birthday..." People are odd! Oh just pop over and say hello! Always room for one (and a half!) more

No we haven't but I thought he'd wait until 11/11 to make his appearence. I'll most likely pop in one day - they do seem like a great bunch but tonight is a one off (so far) and I've not been like a yo-yo resettling him.

Hyena

Just to throw something else into the mix - has this ever happened before? It also sounds like reflux (which my dughter - 15 weeks - has fairly badly, although gained weight well). She also has a dairy allergy - which can present itself like that - she would scream when I fed her, arch her back, go red in the face, take ages to feed, pull he knees up and grunt, projectile vomit loads etc etc. It started after I stopped BF (I had to stop after a week but expressed for 4) and switched to formula. I was at my wits end. She is now on Neocate which is amino acid based and non-dairy, so it could be worth you cutting out dairy from your diet and seeing what happens - such a bore for you I know!

Re the poo - I thin green poo can also be a symptom of dairy allergy and also the mucous - her poos were v mucousy and that is also an indication of allergy (or a cold...) as the stomach produces mucous to "help. Eczema can also be caused by a dairy allergy - here is link to neocate website - it has a list of symptoms of dairy allergy I think - obv you don't need the neocate itself though! www.neocate.co.uk/aaa_neocate/5131-8-quick-questions.html

Obv the other reason could just be that he is 4 months old and noticing the world around him .

Hope this helps and I don't mean to sound like a teacher - it's just that I have gone through it all v recently.

Very helpful post Kingsroadie. Thanks for the link and for taking the time. There is a history of allergies in the family - eczema, asthma, hayfever amongst food allergies so I've always wondered if he will have at least one of them.
The link has told me that he's displaying strong symptoms of a food allergy - I still haven't mentioned it to the health visitor or the GP so maybe we'll head there next week.

I'm also (still) having a similar thing with my 23 week DS - very distractable. He also slips to the end of my nipple, occasionally clamping down and bending it by twisting his head. I have a very powerful letdown - it hurts sometimes - which can make DS choke. I can't even feed lying down as the milk is too fast!

I've not solved the distraction problem - well I rarely feed in public now! A dark room or sleepy DS is the only way he'll feed properly.

I sorted out the green poos (not quite as radioactive as others!) by block feeding and I also cut out dairy. My DS has reflux and Is very windy plus has ezcema so suspected that cows milk could be the problem. Since cutting out obvious things like milk, cheese etc and block feeding things have really improved. DS can cope with my milk flow, I rarely get engorged on the odd occassion DS skips a feed and he is less windy. I've done a lot of reading and suspect that DS's reflux was either caused by or made worse by my milk flow.

I'm hoping to start feeding him milk via a bottle or cup more regularly once weaning starts so hopefully that will make life easier.

Iggly - My DS hurts me in the same way. I don't know about block feeding but I'm off to do some reading on it now. He's been struggling with his tummy today and I'm wondering if it's because I had a glass of milk and a cheese toastie. How long did it take for you to see a difference when cutting out dairy?

i second the block feeding - feeding from an 'emptier' breast, the baby will get higher fat milk which i think causes yellow poo. i'm sure i read on here, or heard somewhere, a midwife saying 'happiness is something something and yellow poo' (can't remember the middle bit .

Hyena block feeding is basically offering the same boob in a particular window of time. The advice is to try 4 hours (so for me as DS was feeding every 2 hours, I'd give him the same boob two feeds in a row then the other boob for next two feeds)

The "off" boob might get engorged at first - just express a very small amount off to relieve it. Then when you feed DS on that boob, make sure you get his position sorted so he doesn't choke or struggle. Basically his head needs to be above his bum - as upright as possible. And try leaning back too!

The sore tummy could be too much wind as fast flow means they'll take down a lot of air. Block feeding should make a difference in a few days. I have to do it all the time though because if I stop, the milk flows too fast again!

Cutting out dairy took about 2 weeks to notice any difference. I think the block feeding had the biggest impact though.

I also avoid expressing milk now as my boobs are so sensitive and will increase production if I pump too much!

Just to add - the dairy (cows milk protein) takes ages to clear out of your system apparently, hence why it takes so long to work.

Also I meant to say that the feeding problem (clamping down etc etc) started after a growth spurt so probably the increase in milk was too much for DS as it meant it flowed faster!

Thanks for the info - you've all be so helpful.

Have been block feeding for last few weeks without even realising. He was only feeding for about 10 mins and then wanting to snack so I continued to put him back to the emptier breast. I wonder if that's what has sorted out the green poo.

Probably! fingers crossed - I hope things improve for you