getting it all wrong

[lazzaroo]

I seriously feel like I am getting everything wrong for my 3 month old girl. I don't understand her cues most of the time. I know thatshe gets tired after an hour and half of being awake but never settles without few tears. Sometimes she gets in such a state I convince myself she must be hungry, even when she may have only fed a short time ago. She often feeds (although is then sometimes sick) and will then fall asleep. Could she be hungry all the time! I then feel like I'm stuck in aviscous circle as although she feeds maybe she doesn't get a full feed? should I feed her again as soon as she wakes up (she only ever sleeps 20-30 mins in day).

I desperately want to give her more of a routine as I feel like I can't effectively feed onb demand as I keep getting it wrong. But when she cries so much (especially when at other people's houses and I feel like I'm being judged) I usually resort to feeding abd any vague routine we have goes out of the window.

I have considred giving up breastfeeding but tried her on a bottle of expressed milk and she refused the bottle. She has also refused a dummy.

I don't know what to do and feel like it's stressing e which must be stressing her.

Sorry for long waffle.

hello. hope you are ok. could you try the bottle of ebm again? my dd is three months too and i worry somtimes too if she's getting enough and find that at least when i express i can see how much she's getting. sorry for appalling typing, am doing it one handed!!
also, have you tried stripping her down tpo her nappy when she's feeding to try to stop her falling asleep part way through?

Hi Lazzeroo - you sound quite down about it all. I'm sure you're doing fine with your DD. Have you chatted to your HV about her and the way she feeds/sleeps. She may be able to help you to sort out a feeding/sleeping routine (even with BFeeding) and could also make suggestions as to how to recognise her demands.
Some babies just like to sleep little and feed often, which isn't easy when you're tired and need a break. Could your DP have a go at giving her EBM - if she smells you nearby, she might be more reluctant to take it. If you wait until she's really hungry, you might find she takes the bottle better. Once she takes it, persevere as she'll soon go off it if it's not a regular thing.
It could be that if you're not completely feeding her on demand and changing the times when you do or don't wait, your milk not not be regulating itself to her needs ifswim?
Try to relax and feed her when you think she needs a feed; try a feed on waking and take it from there. She might have a feed then, then back to sleep for a while and then need another feed and an awake time before another feed for example. If she's a short feeder, it might mean that you feed often for a while until she's a little older. Once you feed completely on demand, then your boobs will regulate to the amount she requires and she'll hopefully for longer stints and the time between will gradually get longer. I know it seems like you're juggling everything at the moment but once your milk is sorted out, then she'll get into her own natural pattern.HTH?

It was my husband who tried to feed her. She just wouldn't take it and screamed!

I have been completely feeding on demand (or what I htink is her demand, like I said I don't know)

I thought I had things sorted a couple of weeks ago, she was feeding and sleeping regularly (about every 2 hours) but then started projectile vomiting everyday (she has always been sicky and suffers badly with trapped wind - other reasons why I get anxious about feeding if she doesn't want it - it makes everything worse) and the Hv said it was likely due to overfeeding and she was just getting rid of excess as her weight gain has been perfect.

I wouldn't mind the fact that she doesn't sleep often but she seems to get so angry with it...unless it's hunger! I just don't know and am so confused by it all. Sometimes she iwll wake, I'll feed her and within 5 mins she can be crying again. I am convinced that she could be a happy, content little girl if it wasn't for me.

"I am convinced that she could be a happy, content little girl if it wasn't for me." no no no this isn't true - babies can get themselves into a right tizz sometimes, don't blame you!!!

It sounds to me like there is a cycle which is hard to break. and i think you might be right in thinking she isn't hungry the second time you feed her IYSWIM. i think she is probably tired. but she is overtired so cannot settle. 20/30mins a day does not sound like enough for a baby. what is she like at night?

The babywhisperer EASY helped me alot at first. I don't agree with some of what she says but the idea that they eat, do something and then sleep, and then eat as soon as they wake up IS quite good IMO.

Is there any other way you can get her to sleep to break the overtiredness? pram / sling / dummy, so that she gets some rest and becomes calmer. also try putting her to bed after an hour, or at least starting the wind down routine after an hour. sit with her in a slightly dimmed room, hold a soft toy - really really low key, until she is sleepy. or walk with her in a pram. whatever it takes basically to get her back to a not overtired state, and then she will settle easily.

saying that my ds was very very hungry at 3 months and used to feed all the time. and spit up lots. is it actual vomit, like masses, or a mouthful of spit up?

It honestly won't have anything to do with you Lazzeroo. You mustn't think it is you. At 3 months, she could be having a growth spurt or teething....or both! It's often hard to tell what's wrong with them. Have you taken her to the GP to get her checked out and put your mind at rest that there's no underlying problem with regards to her sickiness and trapped wind? Breast fed babies have much less wind usually than formula fed so wind shouldn't really be too much of a problem I'd have thought.
For now, don't worry too much about the ebm and bottle feeding her. Not entirely sure what HV means when she says it's due to over feeding - not really possib;e in a BF baby! They stop taking bm when they're full. If you offered the breast and she wasn't hungry, she'd come off and not feed. She'll only take what she wants.
Try to find for you to relax - go for a long walk with her if you can in her pushchair and see if that helps her to sleep for longer and it'll make you feel a bit brighter and more able to cope with her. Also, even if she cries, it doesn't mean that your DH can't entertain her for half an hour whilst you have a relaxing bath. Stress can make everything seem worse than it is and like you said, you had it all worked out a couple of weeks ago. It could be that she's coming down with a little bug or teeth pain etc and it is always hard to tell why they're crying/feeding erratically for things like that.

when she cries 5 minutes after eating, could it be tummy ache, not hunger. if she cries if you take her off the boob, she might still be hungry, but if she seems satisfied then 5 minnutes later cries, its possibly something else????

Hi Lazzaroo, I struggled in a similar way with my DS. He fed almost constantly, was terrible at naps (and sleep in general)and I always felt like it was all my fault. I worried about it so much and felt like I was failing by not getting him into a routine.

Everyone used to say just watch his cues etc. you'll soon learn. Well he went from being wide awake and happy to screaming with over tiredness within minutes. And I once spent 2 weeks noting down his feeds and naps to see if there was any discernable pattern. There was none whatsoever.

He is 20mo and, although he sleeps and naps well now, he still isn't a creature of routine, he is completely random. Sometimes he's tired by 6.30pm, sometimes 8.30pm. He wakes up somewhere between 5.30 and 8am. It's hard never really knowing when you'll be woken or when he'll be ready for lunch, or a nap but it's got easier since I realised that it isn't my fault, it's just how he is.

Reading the Martha and William Sears baby book was a revelation- their 4th baby was what they call 'high need' and they say in the book that if it had been their 1st they would have wondered where the hell they'd gone wrong!

I'm pregnant again and this time I'm going to try to go with the flow a bit more. Some babies love routine and feed and sleep like clockwork. But they're all individuals and of course, some won't settle into a routine. You sound like a lovely caring mum, please don't think it's your fault if she's cranky.

Also, DS used to projectile vomit after lots of feeding too. Be wary of people that talk about overfeeding with a breastfed baby. She may just be very full (nothing wrong with that) and hiccup, and back it all comes. If you are concerned about her feeding, please do try one of the helplines. I spoke to La Leche League on several occasions and they were lovely. I'm sure any of them would be as good though, I'd really recommend it, even if just for a bit of reassurance.
Here are the numbers:
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers

www.abm.me.uk
Helpline: 08444 122 949
Offers voluntary mother-to-mother support, counselling and information for breastfeeding women. Helpline open from 9.30am to 10.30pm.
National Breastfeeding Helpline

Helpline: 0300 100 0212
Funded by the Department of Health and staffed by trained volunteer mothers from the Breastfeeding Network and the Association of Breastfeeding Mothers. Lines are open between 9.30am and 9.30pm every day of the year.
NCT Breastfeeding helpline

Breastfeeding Line: 0300 330 0771
The National Childbirth Trust has trained breastfeeding counsellors who can offer individual advice and support. Lines are open between 8am and 10pm seven days a week.
La Leche League

www.laleche.org.uk
Helpline: 0845 120 2918
Helpline offering advice and information on breastfeeding, plus local group meetings.
Breastfeeding Network

www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk
Helpline: 0300 100 0210
Offers free, confidential telephone information on breastfeeding and one-to-one local support.

Right, well that was longer than I expected! DS is hanging off my leg demanding dinner so I'd better go.

Let us know how you're getting on

Have a look at this, might make you feel better

Thinking about the 'high need baby' as in your article hairymelons, Lazzeroo, have you considered taking your DD to have some cranial osteopathy? I'd highly recommend it; after only two sessions, my baby could lie on his back and sleep for longer than 3 mins and fed more contentedly too. Many people swear by it - I definitely did.
Some babies have tightenings in their heads, back and pelvis and CO can help these tightenings to disappear. A tense, anxious baby can become a calmer baby after only a couple of sessions. There is a registry of COs in the UK and I'd suggest making sure your's is registered if you choose to give it a go. There are loads of threads about on it if you do a search.

that was meant to say 'there are loads of threads about it on here.'

Thanks for the rpleis. We saw a crainal osteopath a couple of weeks agi, he felt that she didn't have much compression and that no other appointment needed.

We have thought that she may be teething. She is very dribbly, often gets very rosey cheeks or sometimes just one and always plays with her gums. But no sign of any teeth yet so maybe not.

We've tried infacol, colief, gripe water etc etc.

When she is sick she is REALLy sick! projectile and large quantities. I think she does get belly ache which is why i am reluctant to feed on top of feed etc. Someone else recommended EASY routine, and without knowing it this is sort of what she fell into a couple of weeks ago. It was working until she started being so sick. I ordered the book today, should be here tomorrow!

oops, I didn't mean total 20-30 mins a day! I meant at a time. Although she still only naps about 3 times. Sometimes more if out in pram but even then she now wakes after 30 mins. Yesterday I was walking her for 2 hours! she slept for 30mins, woke up and yawned continuusly for 45 mins then slept for another 30 mins! She's not getting very quality sleepo at night, she is very restless. I think mainly due to wind, she wakes up to fart!

I love her so much that I want her to be happy all of the time and everyone kept talking about that magic 12 weeks where everything changes! it hasn't happened for us!

I thought by now I'd be confident to make plans, go out, have friends round etc but most of the time I get anxious about how she will be. It's such a shame as I want to enjoy it more. I start every day with a positive frame of mind!

Just been readint he features of 'high-need baby' on-line. It's like they've met my little one and based it on her. Even down to her very loud cry, refusal to be swaddled, needing constant motion etc etc. Am going to order the book now!

Thanks everyone

DS started teething at 11 weeks old but didn't cut a tooth until he was 9mo! He had a really hard time with them, the only thing that helped was baby paracetamol/ ibuprofen. Hated giving it to him at first but he was really suffering- his teeth are massive.

Also, we struggled to get DS to go to sleep willingly or play by himself until fairly recently. It's knackering but I feel like giving him all the reassurance he has 'demanded' has resulted- eventually- in a happy, trusting boy. Ignore anyone that tells you about 'rods for your own back' etc etc. It's bollocks, generally spouted by people who had laid-back babies and would take all credit for their being 'good'.

Anyway, hope you do feel a bit more confident soon. It does get easier.

Both of my kids were 'teething' from about 3 months but had no teeth until the normal time. They're probably just under the surface waiting to come up, which can still be painful for them.
Think you'll feel better once the books arrive - they look good!