BF just a dream now? someone tell me straight please....

[indigobarbie]

Hi all, I'm the proud first time Mum to DS1 who is now 6 days old and was 10lbs 1 at birth.

In hospital I fed him as follows:
day 1 - expressed colostrum
day 2 - expressed colostrum but with 2 x 30ml formula cup feed, one feed attached to breast
day 3 - exp col, the rest of the feeds were formula
day 4 - formula bottles
day 5 - milk in (yay) expressed milk but mostly formula bottles
today - expressed milk but also formula too

My points/troubles are as follows:

Maybe I just didn't get that I have to try to get the baby on my breast 24/7, and I have totally missed the boat with this?

The advice given to me differed greatly between breastfeedeing support and midwives - BF support were happy for me to keep trying the baby and expressing without topups. MWs were anxious that the baby was not getting enough and therefore advised to top up with formula, eventually I gave him the formulas to get out of hospital. I had an emer C section and the pain from this is unreal, I find it hard to handle the baby.

1. I can't get him to latch on and this is a problem - How long to have him attempt before I give in and feed him formula? (which yes, I have been doing. If I can't get him on for 10mins then he gets angry, I end up making him a formula feed)

1. Maybe I didn't try hard enough or as often as required since he was born to get him to attach on, or even feed from me

1. I can now express the milk using a pump but it won't seem enough as he now has been having formula

1. Help - am I doing it all wrong?

The midwife tells me I have to 'make a decision' which I think is either formula feeds or BF only?

Obviously I want to try to continue with breastfeeding and knock out the formula feeds, but can I realistically do this?
Please can you tell me straight, if I should just go with the formula then that's what I will do. TBH it seems like the easiest option at the moment, but I really want to still give him my milk.
Thanks

I'm not an expert but did not want this to go unanswered. It is not too late. My first few days with DD were very similar to this and by 8 months I was BF with 1 bottle of formula at night.

Persevere if you want to bf and hopefully someone can come along and give you more practical advice.

Congratulations on the birth of your son!

bump

find it strange that the mw is asking you to 'make a decision' ..why, what for?
I would say give yourself time, time and time. Keep expressing inbetween attempting to feed to maintain and build up your supply. The more you pump/ feed, the more you'll supply.
The quantity issue b/m vs formula ...it's not quantity so much as quality. As long as your little one is satisfied by the end of a feed.
Yes, You can build supply back up.
Attachment issues..have you tried the nipple shields (mexican hats) this could help although try not to prolong their use.
Most of all relax.
Try google'ing some video's for tips on attachment.
Best of luck

Simple answer: yes it is almost certainly possible to get your DS onto just breast milk.

For a start you need to express, express and express some more. Do you have a double pump?

You need it see a BF councilor in person.

Hopefully tiktok will be along soon...

Wow - I think you are doing FANTASTICALLY. I am not sure why the midwife is pressuring you to make a decision right now. I admit I am not an expert at these things. I know that kellymom is a very good website and they have a great, informative section about relactation (getting baby back onto the breast) here: www.kellymom.com/bf/adopt/index.html

How often have you been expressing? You need to express often, including at night, to stimulate enough milk supply.

Have you thought about using a Supplemental Nursing System which is like a tube which comes down to your nipple and the baby suckles on you but gets formula at the same time, so they get enough and you get the stimulation.

Does he have any feeds direct from you? Can you feed lying down at all - does this help with the pain?

If you do choose to stop remember you have given your little boy a wonderful start already, feel proud

It is absolutely not too late - I cannot understand why your midwife is telling you that a 'decision' is needed!

You need a babymoon - spend a couple of days in bed with your baby having lots of skin-to-skin, and put your DS to the breast as often as possible. Leave your top and bra off so that he can latch on whenever - you will probably need to help him latch, gently help him towards your nipple when he gives feeding cues (all the pecking-type movements, open mouth on your skin etc).

I would advise calling one of the BF lines, as you need some one-to-one help regarding dropping the formula.

Tbh I think you need to find out why he isn't latching - if he can't latch then all the babymoons in the world won't help, in fact they may be extremely distressing. I'm presuming you've been checked for tongue-tie? A badly tt baby sometimes cannot latch at all, and not all mw have the first clue about this.

Hi indogobarbie,

I'm a newbie but wanted to respond to your post as I was in exactly the same position as you last August - my little boy was born by emergency section after a very long labour, I was in lots of pain physically and all over the place emotionally, and could not get my LO to latch on.

I had different advice depending on who I was talking to, most of which consisted of being told to express colostrum (but not being shown how despite asking), and baby being shoved in the direction of my breast. We gave in to formula top-ups due to slight jaundice, and being desperate to get out of hospital, and I was gutted, I was so desperate to BF.

Long story short, my baby turned out to have a tongue-tie, which we eventually had snipped privately at 16 weeks, after which he actually managed to feed from me for the first time (I had expressed milk for him from coming out of hospital and fed from a bottle). I had specifically asked the midwives in hospital to check for tongue tie when we first struggled to latch, as I knew the problems it could cause. The ironic thing is I'm a speech therapist, so see older children with tongue tie, and know the signs to look for, but trusted the midwife over my own instinct.

Although my baby did breast feed a couple of times after having the tie snipped, obviously by 16 weeks old he was too used to the bottle to be able to get him back to the breast, although we did try.

With hindsight, I wish I had persevered more in the early days to get better advice and more help, but I was so desperate to be left alone and not be prodded and poked by total strangers after 5 days in hospital that I just hid away and started expressing. As I said earlier, I've exclusively expressed for my baby since he was a few days old, and he's now 29 weeks. It is possible, but it ain't fun and can be quite restrictive.

So, my advice (at the end of the epic post), is to get checked for tongue tie by someone who knows what they are looking for! Be that specialist midwife/neonatal nurse, BF consultant, whoever, but KEEP GOING until you get the help and answers you need!

Hope this helps, feel free to contact me if you want to.
Good luck!

Sorry, typo, meant Indigobarbie

Morning everyone! You lot are awesome, thanks so much for responding so quickly. It really has given me much hope. I think at the moment I am too caught up in self pity with my c section pain and DP having to do everything for me. I struggle to get comfortable as had SPD during my pregnancy which is still adding to the pain. Also at the moment my Dad has only days left with end stage cancer, so that is also playing on my mind too. However, feeding the baby is more important and to get it right at the moment.

I think I will call a breastfeeding support councillor and get someone out to the house to check up on me. I purchased a mendela swing breast pump yesterday and am managing to express about 30ml from each breast which I am totally amazed at - but I would rather the baby latch on, as obviously expressing and then feeding from the bottle is almost like double the work in some respects. I am totally bewildered at all of this and honestly (naively) thought that this would all come very naturally! Hah, just like labour eh? Not.
Thanks to all and I will post up my progress in the coming days

Hi indigo

If there's no tongue-tie, it's very possible your baby has "nipple confusion" - which is what my newborn had - similar story to you, EmCS, given bottles early on then wouldn't recognise my nipples as a source of food and was too sleepy to try. Initially nipple guards got her onto my breast and stimulated the suction reflex, then I weaned her off those and the bottles using the tube feeder SNS mentioned upthread. Loads of expressing with the Medela Swing too, so we were able to drop the formula as a supplement quite quickly. It took patience, perseverence and a babymoon, but we got there and now 5 weeks in, she breastfeeds fine.

It can be done! You've made a great start and it sounds like you're determined - good luck!

That is great that you are going to see a breastfeeding counsellor - it will really help to have someone see you in person and try to help you work on the latch.

With my DD1 I had an EMCS and also had problems with latch at the start - I went on to breastfeed for 14 months. I'm now breastfeeding my 4 week old DD2.

Hopefully tiktok will be along soon, and she really is brilliant, so listen to what she says.

I know how frustrating it can be when the baby won't latch on, but 10 minutes doesn't really sound that long. Cracking this will take patience, you need to give him as much time to get latched on as possible. One of the things that really helped me was taking to bed one day and having lots of skin-to-skin and basically constantly offering the breast.

Also, chill out about your DP having to do everything - that's his job now. Your job is basically to rest and sit under that baby while he feeds. Let other people do the other jobs around you, and don't feel lazy. Feeding your baby and recovering from a section are enough to be doing.

You will produce more milk if you get the baby feeding than from expressing, because the baby can feed more efficiently than a machine can pump. So it's worth really persevering with getting him to latch on.

You are not doing it all wrong at all, you're doing great. It's sadly quite common for women to come home from hospital doing lots of different things and having been given very contradictory advice. I know I was very confused and addled by what I was being told by the midwives in hospital first time.

Also, not sure from your post if this has been said to you, but be very wary of anyone telling you that you won't have enough milk because your DS was so big. DD2 was bigger (10lb 3oz) and I have no supply issues at all. It's not always the case, but most women can feed their baby adequately even if they are big fatsos like mine

So sorry about your Dad

Firstly well done for being determined about bfing - so many mums give up and move to formula too quickly. I had 3 weeks of expressing and feeding but we got there in the end! No one really tells you how hard bfing can be and so many mw, hv and friends/family persuade you to give formula when you hit problems.

I would say definitely see a bf councillor in person - call your local NCT or see if your local surestart centre have anyone. We have a weekly bf cafe run by surestart with a bf councillor - I still go now (dd is 13wks)
Good luck!

indigobarbie, I would agree with others who have said please (if you can) see a BF councillor in person. In my experience, with breastfeeding, the squeaky wheel gets the oil (i.e. you'll get the best help and advice if you seek out a good BF councillor who can stick with you through the tough early stages - the health visitors and midwives might (sounds like they are) give you conflicting advice which will just confuse you).

Try www.lalecheleague.co.uk or www.breastfeedingnetwork.co.uk or www.breastfeedingsupport.co.uk to try to find a councillor in your area who you can talk to one-on-one. She will watch you breastfeed, help you with latch-on or any other issues, etc. One of these organisations might even send someone around to your house to help. But IME you really have to go looking for these people, once you've found a good councillor they are worth their weight in gold. Good luck.