Should Formula instantly be free for all women on benefits?

[mummyof2byapril]

Before now I've always i've always used mothering forums that are frequented mainly by americans.
One thing that strikes me is that many of them on welfare or low incomes have a very strong incentive to breastfeed to avoid the prices of formula.
In this country I see that people on benefits are actually much less likelier to breastfeed and often simply plan to bottle feed.
Do you think the fact that they instantly get vouchers for free formula may sway the decision somewhat?
Remember we're talking about people who're on benefgits so more likely to be young, vulnerable and dare I say less informed or terested in doing any great ammount of research on their decision.

"What's the point of vouchers anyway? If we as a society think poor mothers should get some help, why not just give cash?"

It's additional money, over and above the usual benefits, to carers of babies and toddlers. Unfortunately not everyone in the world spends money wisely, and it's not just for formula, it's for fresh fruit & veg etc as well. Basically it's to ensure the money goes on a decent diet for a bf mother, or formula for a ff infant.

"Of course it should be a choice, it IS a choice, but why should other people have to foot the bill of that choice?"

Because benefits are at subsistence levels, and if you can't afford something then it isn't a choice, is it, by definition? This money is only for the very poorest in society, everyone else DOES have to pay for it themselves. You're selecting a bizarre target here - the health in preg. grant is given to everyone, so we're already funding people's dietary choices irrespective of income, and then the first dollop of the child trust fund isn't means tested, either. Not are child benefits. Given the babymilk money can be spent on fruit & veg & milk by the lactating mum as much as formula by the ff mum, I fail to see your problem. Do you refuse to claim your child benefit, health in preg. grant and child trust fund voucher - all benefits paid for via taxation? Or is it only offensive when the recipients truly need it?

I don't think there can be many mothers who wouldn't buy formula because they didn't have a specific voucher for it, instead spending their money on booze and fags. And if they are, a voucher is unlikely to turn them from 'take the child into care' into 'mum of the year'

New mothers get free dental and prescriptions for a year - there seems to be a recognition that the mother's health is important, so there's no problem with offering vouchers that only apply to fruit+veg, in order to promote their good health, but 'formula vouchers' are in direct conflict with international policy on not promoting formula feeding.

FFS - pregnancy is a choice, let them get on with the consequences.

Good point someguy
Using healthy start vouchers for formula IS in direct conflict with what healthy start vouchers are for, being healthy.
They won't let me use healthystart vouchers for soya milk as they believe dairy milk is healthier! So I have to pay for our own soya milk because we can't handle dairy.

Not being able to breastfeed also is a completely diffrent kettle of fish, actually not being able to is rare. If someone is going to say that the 80% of 4-6 months old babies who are not being breastfed, aren't being so because they're mother's are 'unable' I call that absolutely bullshit.
I would say the percentage of mother 'not able' to breastfeed is more like 8%, not 80%,
the majourity of FF is done by choice.

confuzzled
That's really interesting, I also heard breastfeeding was 'disgusting and animal like' from people of an older generation, and I know formula feeding is a status simbol too, especially in Africa too sadly.
I can't wait for the tables to turn and realise that the association with choosing to FF isn't about being wealthy, it's amore about being uneducated.

If the vouchers could only be used for formula then I would feel a bit iffy about it, I think. I instinctively dislike a benefit that dictates to someone exactly how it can be spent, and it does seem the wrong sort of incentive. However if, as people have reported, you can use the vouchers for milk, fruit, veg, etc (I've got no personal experience, but assume that that's right) then I have no problem with it. A mother can weigh the cost and the ability to use those vouchers for something else in her decision over whether to breastfeed (and if she struggles, the vouchers are a helping hand with the cost).

then far better to invest some money into educating women about breastfeeding and providing consistent, 24/7 breastfeeding support in hospitals and in the community.

that would be far far better, for those poor unedcuated souls who don't /won't breastfeed.

I agree Lulumaan.
Why the face? :-p

That is being worked on.
I was really happy with my pregnancy pack, it told me all about the 'risks of bottlefeeding' :-D it was brilliant for it all to finally be written plainly for all to see.
People still plan to bottlefeed though, especially the more uneducated 'poor' ones of us.
My brother's 17yo pregnant gf plans to bottlefeed 'just cause' or something..
I really hope her doctor tells her straight about the facts and she listens.
But peer pressure is probably too big of a factor for some to listen to a doctor :/
I'm sure breastfeeding is still 'a bit weird and ape-like' among her and her friends.

"I don't think there can be many mothers who wouldn't buy formula because they didn't have a specific voucher for it, instead spending their money on booze and fags. And if they are, a voucher is unlikely to turn them from 'take the child into care' into 'mum of the year'"

No, of course there aren't. And of course it won't. But they do exist, and it generally takes a while before a neglectful mother either turns the corner or is deemed unfit enough for care proceedings. Their babies matter, too. It's also worth remembering that benefits are swingeingly low, and if you just add that money into the overall pot, it may have to be used to pay the gas bill, if fruit/veg is the other option. That doesn't make a mother irresponsible, it just makes her very poor. Vouchers mean it is ring-fenced.

"that would be far far better, for those poor unedcuated souls who don't /won't breastfeed."

What, than vouchers that mothers can spend on milk and fresh fruit and veg for themselves if they breastfeed, or milk for the babies if they don't? This money only goes to mothers on benefits - they need it, IMO! I think more cash supporting bf is essential, but I strongly disagree that the right place to find it is the healthy eating benefit given to mothers of under-3s on the lowest income in society.

"FFS - pregnancy is a choice, let them get on with the consequences. "

Then I assume you aren't accepting your health in pregnancy grant, child benefit, or child trust funds. Or is your own choice somehow different?

conufzzled, my phrase about poor souls hwo can't won't breastfeed was sarcastic and in respoinse to mummy2april, saying formula feeding was more about lack of education.
"I can't wait for the tables to turn and realise that the association with choosing to FF isn't about being wealthy, it's amore about being uneducated."

i think vouchers for people on a low income, that can be used for milk/fruit /bveg are great and have no issue with that at all

i do think the major factor in breastfeeding not continuing is lack of support, many many HCP advise top ups in the early days. some more well known child care and breastfeeding gurus regualrly give out misninformation i.e expressing as a way to tell how much milk you have, that the breasts can be empty etc etc

Yeah, as someone who struggled like mad to feed and met with conflicting advice at every turn I couldn't agree more. It's dreadful that they guilt women about how they SHOULD feed, without helping them learn HOW. Recipe for failure and dreadful guilty misery, IME.

is this thread still going?

No. You just need to cut down on the hallucinogens.

destructogirl- please dont twist the context of my post and stating your "disgusted"
I wasnt saying that milkvouchers = freeloading at all.

I was simply commenting on mis-use of the word free. Its overused and makes things sound like its a freeloading situation when its not.

Things are rarely free, there is usually a cost to someone/something somewhere along the line.

In this case the milk is without charge to the repient because the government would be paying for it.

LOL confuzled. Good idea Smarting....

Remember we're talking about people who're on benefgits so more likely to be young, vulnerable and dare I say less informed or terested in doing any great ammount of research on their decision.

and where is YOUR research on this statement???

god i frigging hate these threads..........op gets on high horse about how amazing and top mum of the year they are because they breastfeed and just cannot get it into their so called educated,informed heads that DESPITE KNOWING THE BENEFITS,AMAZINGNESS OF BREASTFEEDING AND HOW IT OBVIOUSLY MAKES YOU A BETTER MOTHER SOME PEOPLE CHOOSE...I REPEAT CHOOSE NOT TO BREASTFEED......not because they get free vouchers or because they live on a council estate and didnt have an education...its because they CHOOSE not too and it is none of anyone elses business if that is their decision......................

I'm happy that you didn't mean that gingerbread
Wasn't twisting though, I genuinely read it like that, mind you I'd had a glass of wine... or two.

Ah, I see what you mean about the nursing bras CrosswordGeek - and not only hideously expensive but also just hideous from what I remember

I don't think not being able to breastfeed is rare though. Maybe outright physically not being able to from the start is rare, but not being able to can include a lot of factors such as lack of support.

And I don't think choosing to FF is about being uneducated. People make that choice for many reasons.

My surestart grant wasn't used to buy thing for the baby.

It wasn't used to pay for a large screen tv either.

We used it to pay the mortgage the month DS was born as DH wasn't entitled to paternity leave and had to take unpaid leave to be with us.

I had milk vouchers for a while, even though DS is still breastfed and doesn't drink much cows milk.
But the rest of the family does and eats too.

All this is good for the baby as it is good for me.

Here here currycrazy! I 100% agree with you, except I wouldn't have been able to say that without swearing!

The BFing police on MN really annoy me.

Look, I completely support the right of any mother to ff, they're her boobs and it's her choice what she does to them. I too loathe it when people imply someone who chooses to ff is an idiot; many factors can bear on that choice, and it's nobody else's business, anyway. But the research is plentiful that the poorer an area and community, the lower the bf rates, in this country. Those are facts, and denying them is pointless.

"research is plentiful that the poorer an area and community, the lower the bf rates, in this country. Those are facts, and denying them is pointless."

Not disputing that Confuzled! I just find it ridiculous that some people are really of the opinion that being in receipt of a few quids worth of vouchers is the deciding factor in some womens decision to formula feed.