Worrying about TTC due to BF worries. Might be long and rambling.

[Kayzr]

We are going to TTC DC3 later this year. I have 2 lovely boys that have both ended up being FF.

DS1: I didn't really want to BF him at all and I got all the stuff needed for FF. When I was about 35 weeks my MW talked to me about BF and I came round to think that actually I wanted to BF him for as long as possible. While in labour I had pethidine about 25 minutes before he was born. He was very sleepy and wouldn't latch on. While I was sent for a bath the gave him a bottle as he was crying. When I asked for help to BF I was told to just shove him on. No matter what I tried nothing would get him to latch on and the MW always seemed too busy.
At home it was no better, my usual MW had broken her ankle and I was sent another one. In all I saw 5 MWs in the 1st 10 days of DS1's life all with different ideas. But the main one was horrible and just said to get on with it and motherhood isn't easy. On day 11 we decided to stop mix feeding and to just FF him.

DS2: He was born at home without any pain relief that would make him sleepy. He was 10lb 5oz and my normal MW said he might want to feed loads but I had prepared myself for that. The first 2 days I thought were going well. The MW was happy, he seemed to be latching on well. The after pains bloody hurt but it seemed good. Then on day 3 a different MW came as mine was having a week's holiday. She said he had jaundice and checked the latch and showed me how to feed lying down and the rugby feeding position.
On day 4 I got the MW that I had with DS1. She weighed him for the first time since he was born. He was 9lb 6oz, She started to go on about how I wasn't producing enough milk or that it wasn't good enough. She said he had lost over 10% of his birth weight. She said that I would have to start giving top ups or they would take him to hospital so he could be tube fed. She sent DH to the shop to buy formula. Once he had been given the first few top ups he didn't seem to want to latch on as much.
It was a real struggle to get him to latch on and then to stay on. On day 7 he had gained an ounce so it was deemed that it was my milk that was the problem and that I should keep giving him formula to make sure he kept putting on weight.

At 6 weeks I made the horrible decision to stop BF as it was such a struggle and I didn't think he was even really getting anything from me anymore. When he was 18 weeks I gave re-lactation a go but after 2 weeks of trying to produce some milk nothing seemed to be working.

DS2 is now 14 months old and I actually thought I was over the fact that I hadn't BF him. But when at the GP surgery the other day to see the physio I saw the MW who suggested the top ups with DS2 and didn't help with DS1. It really brought it all back to me and I ended up bursting into tears when I got home. Also the boys had a pretty bad cold last week and MIL said "Well if you had BF they wouldn't get colds"

I am so scared of it not working for DC3 that I am tempted to just FF from the start. I felt a huge failure that I couldn't BF and I am worried it will happen again.

I am so so sorry that this is so long winded.

So what can I do to give me more of a fighting chance?

Thanks.

I am sure there will be people on here to give you helpful advice and support, and God knows I know nothing about bf as you know. But one thing I do know is that you are a smashing Mum, however you feed your babies.

(As to what your MIL says, well, you know that's bollocks. O has only had one cold in 14 months.) I hope someone comes on with some practical advice though

Thanks LadyT, I know I can always count on my Dec 08 girls to keep me happy.

I think the comment from MIL threw me a bit as it was the same day I saw the MW.

Gosh, you have had a rough time with very poor support from the health professionals who should of been making things easier for you, not harder

Breastmilk does not make perfect health.
I have two breastfeed children and whilst my first(DD) is very healthy, my second child (DS) has many colds and suffers from eczema. Your MIL is wrong your children would still get ill, however they were fed.

Do you think it might help to talk through what happened with your DS maybe with an trained breastfeeding counsellor. They would listen and help you to decide what you would like to do this time around and help you figure out what happened last time(s).

The numbers are here on the right hand side of the page I have rung the NCT and the LLL ones before and talked to some lovely ladies.
Helpline Numbers

Good luck with the TTC

HTH

Kayzr, you poor thing! What a nightmare! I'm no expert and there are others out there that are. I would suggest the following: no drugs during labour - or if possible not near the end, unless emcs - the baby will then be naturally alert when born. Have midwife place your baby on your tummy/chest and cuddle them for ages. During this time, allow the baby to clamber and bob towards your nipple with the odd gentle nudge if you feel it is needed. You and DH/partner can do this, not necesarily the MWs. Feed often in first hours / days / weekds - my mum said if in doubt plug them on - you want to establish a good milk supply. Feed on demand, although be aware that if they are feeding well and are full, a good size baby can get enough milk to last 2/2.5 hours - during growth spurts 1.5/1 hours . Get through the first six weeks as they are hard, and you should come out the other side. Although I am now getting tired as DS is a distracted 4.5 month old and wants to feed at night or in a quiet room. Snore.

This is just from personal experience and what I have read/got from BF class with an experienced counsellor while pregnant who was recommended by my yoga teacher. I am happy to be corrected and apologise if anything is wrong.

waves a white flag at LadyThompson

oh and my DS has just had a hideous cold, which my mum says was good for him!

oh and look up biological nurturing. if it is not happening, apparently this is something you can try!

i've just watched it - the final baby in that position - my DS loves that, and I get to lie down!

Really glad you are getting some advice, Kayz, hope there is more to come.

Are you in London? I hear from friends that claire byam cook is great to see in person if you have problems again. Also - not sure if the latch is the issue but perhaps getting some lactation consultants' numbers on hand incase may help. I m sorry you have had a crap time and really hope it goes better for you this time

Nope nowhere near London. So unable to see Claire Byam Cook is out of the question thank god.

Ruby, thanks. I will google that and watch that video. Not planning to start ttc until august but want to start feeling better about BF.

I understand from reading interviews with CBC, that Claire Byam Cook has decided some mothers are 'duff milkers' and tells them just to use formula. Hardly helpful imo.

I am sure she helps some women but she is not trained as a BFC, she certainly fails to help some women...oh and she charges to 'help' too.

Babieseverywhere. Thank you too. If I rang one of the helpline would they still be able to help even though I'm not BF now?

Yes, you can ring now, you don't need to be breastfeeding to use the support line.

Thanks, Babieseverywhere. I'll try and ring today children permitting.

God you've had such crap support I'm so sorry. I was actually wondering if one of the MWs you saw was CBC from the "advice" she gave!

Definitely second giving one of the bfing helplines a call? Is there a bfing support group or a LLL group near you? Do doulas give bfing support and advice? Just wondering if it's worth having one on hand next time so that you get good support from the start.

And no, bfing does NOT = perfectly healthy child. DD has just puked vast quantities of bm up this evening, having been snuffly and under the weather for the last couple of days. Plus my dad (retired GP) has told me that the more colds DC get under the age of two, the better for their eventual immune system

No BFing groups anywhere near here. When they closed the maternity ward at the local hospital the BFing group went too.

We couldn't afford a doula so it's not an option for us.

I rang the LLL helpline and she wasn't that helpful. She basically said if we have anymore I need to stand my ground and refuse formula top ups. I should have been more assertive with DS2 and not given the top ups. So I now feel worse than I originally did.

I guess she might have been having a bad day.

Good grief, Kayzr I am sorry, the helplines are meant to be supportive and non-judgemental. The counsellors should not be on the line if they are 'having a bad day'

As for refusing top ups, I don't understand why any mother would not comply, if a health care professional was as directive as your health visitor was with your husband and you.

After all sometimes top ups are needed to keep baby awake enough and able to nurse in certain circumstances and the HCP is there looking at the baby and is highly likely to be doing the right thing. Of course it also follows that you should of received support to move back to exclusively breast feeding and phrase out the top ups as soon as it was possible. It does not sound like you got this support.

The LLL counsellor should not of made you feel worse and I feel so sad myself that I suggested to ring them. I will only recommend the NCT line from now on.

The NCT helpline is definitely mother centred and non-judgemental and I rang them when I thought I was going to be taken into hospital with practically no notice and to be separated from my baby again.

We definitely discussed using formula, as I had no breast milk in the freezer and I had nothing to leave my baby. The BFC was very non-judgemental and helped me find what I wanted and she never commented when I burst into tears just waited for me to continue. I am in tears now, thinking about how kind and supportive she was.

If you can face it, please consider ringing the NCT line and I am so sorry the LLL line wasn't supportive.

Doula wise if you are on benefits or your doctor or other health professional would recommend that you would benefit from having a doula, some mothers get a free doula.

I have a copy of the form for my friend and could email it on to you if you want to cat me OR visit Doula UK and ask them (via contact me form) for a copy of the form direct.

Worth a try, doula's rock

I definitely want a doula next time, but will have to be a student for us as we can't afford a proper one either.

Sorry about the LLL being crap

I'll try the NCT line this week if I get a spare second as I'm back at work after having last week off.

I didn't know about the doula if you get benefits. I'll give them an e-mail.

With DS2 my normal MW that I had all my appointments with and she was at my birth was brilliant. I couldn't fault her at all but she was on holiday the week after he was born so I got sent the horrible one.

I am going to see if I can refuse to have her when we have the next one.

Yes, you can refuse care from any midwife for any reason. Contact the 'supervisor of midwifes' at your local hospital and have a chat with her and/or send a letter and they will sort out alternative midwife care for you.

The doula thing, it is not an automatic right to a free doula if you are on benefits but they have a fund and help as many women as the fund can support. Fill in the form and we'll all keep our fingers crossed for you