Breast for comfort, not for food

[Newbeginning1]

DS is nearly 8 weeks old and is currently bf although will have formula if we're out after boob to top him up or at night when he has sucked me "dry". I appreciate this is affecting my supply but i need to balance having an over tired hungry baby and my supply.

I've said for weeks something isnt right as he takes up to 2 hours to feed. Recently he has been feeding for less time but waking after 15 mins sleep. I dont think hes getting enough of my boob in his mouth so im trying to remedy that.

The main issue we have though is that he's now associated my boob with comfort and not food. He will feed well but fall asleep and when i put him down he cries. I picked him up earlier and he finished off another 3oz of formula whereas on me he had near enough fallen asleep. Im trying to express but im just not getting anything off but if i do its only an oz at a time so its not enough to "top him up" so to peak.

How can i disassociate my boob with comfort and associate it with food and how long is it likely to take? I feel like right now a lot of our issues are due to feeding and part of me thinks it would be easier to move onto expressing only and giving it to him that way or moving onto formula and i really need some advice around what to do going forward.

Gosh 2 hours a feed is hard.

The thing is i don't think you can dissosciate comfort and feeding - your baby will find comfort at teh breast while feeding anyway. And being able to pop a baby on to comfort them is actually very handy especially as they get older.

Re the "sucking dry" thing I don;t think that really happens - as the sucking stimulates production, and while feeding more milk is produced. If you start to supplement you could get into a downward supply spiral - your baby is still V young and things are still settling down.

As for falling asleep at the breast - I do things like blow gently on face, tickle, jiggle etc to try and rouse them to take some more. If you try that maybe your DS can be persuaded to really fill up.

And (braces self) have you tried a dummy?

I want him to understand that my boob is for feeding because he just seems to be grazing and never seems to be full so from what my HV has said he doesnt get that he needs to suck for his food if that makes sense? Hes putting on weight though and has enough dirty nappies.

I've just left a message for the NCT to call me back. I was hoping my HV would help but she doesnt seem to have much of an idea on breastfeeding (which shes has admitted herself)

We are co sleeping but ive been advised due to my depression etc i need to stop this so ive got lots that needs to change.

Well I think you're doing a sterling job keeping the BF up, with 2 hour long feeds, even without throwing depression into the mix. You are obviously very determined

Hopefully teh NCT will call you back soon and have some good advice.

It does get easier I promise - my first the first 6 weeks were hard but my second it was 12 weeks before things settled down with the BF. Hang in there.

If I were you I would be trying to get the baby to stay awake for feeds and would be considering trying a dummy TBH, but see what the NCT have to say.

Really good luck

Also have you tried swaddling? A lot of people swear by it - the baby gets a feeling of security which hopefully lets them sleep better...

DS seems to see my boob as comfort first then food if that makes sense? Its nice being able to comfort him but i need to leave him at some point with his father and he just wont settle without it. I have tried 4 different types of dummys and he just spits them out. I never knew my boobs could be so popular.

I tried swaddling which worked for a couple of nights then he just got agitated by not being able to kick etc but i might give it another go.

I know that as soon as ive got the feeding sorted everything else will get better and i will feel more positive about things. I just want us to get to a point where he's getting a really good feed and when we're out im confident he's full so i can take him off the breast and its not a massive issue that he then cant fall asleep.

My DD1 wouldn't take a dummy either. Some just won't have it.

I hope NCT have a cunning plan/someone comes to this thread with some more advice and suggestions. All I can do is reassure you that it gets better, and it does, it's gradual though, and sometimes you feel like things are going "backwards" when they have a growth spurt. But they do get better, I promise.

How is DS when you leave him with his dad - does he fuss and squibble or does he calm down when your breasts aren't on the scene?

what's wrong with comfort??

most babies will take a nbottle after a breastfeed, regardless of how miuch they've had. becausse it's easy

most babies will also wake when put down if they have fallen asleep on the breast. it's normal, and no sign that he isn't getting enough. although the more you top up, the less you will make, so if you want to up your supply then you need to give less formula

you can't disassociate the breast with comfort, it's what it's for!!!

btw, i always fed mine to sleep, and they do eventually grow out of it.

I agree with thisisyesterday. To me, the comfort factor of bf is an advantage and not something I'd want to discourage. Useful after vaccinations or if dd wakes at 5.30am - I am glad she can suckle back to sleep.

It is hard when they're small because it sometimes feels like all you do is feed but it gets easier and it sounds like your doing a great job - he gaining weight etc

Not being able to express lots or your breasts not feeling full at the end of the day aren't an indicator of lack of milk. It's easy to doubt yourself. I am sure the NCT will give you great advice & support and there is always MN, if course

Good luck!

I tend to do a nappy change if dd2 falls asleep at the breast and I don't think she's taken enough. It wakes her enough to get her to take more when she latches on again.

I agree that breasts are for comfort too though, and whilst it is hard sometimes when you feel like a permanent milking machine, I tell myself that she'll need me to do this for such a short period of her life, that I should just relax, take my time and enjoy it.

Sounds like you're doing a great job - hope you get the support you need from NCT.

About the co-sleeping; I've bought a 'bedside cot' for dd2 (wish I'd had one for dd1), it's their own cot but the side comes down and you adjust the base so it's level with your mattress. It's as convinient as co-sleeping but without actually having the baby in your bed.

Sounds like you are having a tough time - hope you get some good rl advice soon. I'm not an expert but it seems unlikely to me that he doesn't realise that your boobs are for food, especially if he is doing lots of nappies.

Just thought, if the baby is after you all the time, we had one of those bouncy chair things with a vibrate setting on it, which was the only thing that would quieten DD1 down in teh early days. I can understand you not wanting to be attached 24/7. Having said that a lot of people swear by a sling as well - babies will often be more content and nap in sling as they're next to mum - maybe something else to think about. Not my cup of tea personally but may be something that works for you.

I think you just need to try everything and see what helps.

Beastfeeding isn't just about nutrition. The comfort factor is very important. Would you consider using a sling/cosleeping so you babies contact needs are met by other means than BF?

She has been cosleeping but has been advised against it due to her depression.

I would guess (correct me if I'm wrong OP) that she is looking for a way of having a break. Which I can understand TBH.

Thanks for your thoughts everyone.

Im separated from DS' father so its just us but when DS goes to other people he knows eg Mum he cries and cries. I appreciate that at such a small age he needs his Mummy but we're at the point that if i give him to someone else to go to the loo he screams and sometimes i can comfort him but other times he just wants boob to calm down.

Does everyone else feed their LO's to sleep and how long did it take for them to grow out of it?

Oh, yes. 4 year in came in looking for slippers and distracted me....

OP - have you been to a local support group?
If you have a surestart nearby they should have one or LLL or ABM? If you can get to one you might find it reassuring as IME small babies need lots of cuddles and comfort and BF is all tied up in that. Maybe you will be able to guage what is 'normal'. Also, if they have a trained BFC they can check your latch.
I found it got loads easier quite soon after the 10 weeks mark.

When DS2 was diddy DS1 went through a 'mummy' stage so DH would pop him in a sling and walk him round a bit. Is there any chance your DP/H could do that?

this has a list of the BF helpline numbers.

Just out of curiosity the not cosleeping; is that due to meds you're on because of the depression?

Gosh it does sound like hard work newbeginning1, it is hard being by yourself with a demanding baby.

There are lots of ideas on this thread and I think with this stuff it's often a question of trial and error.

I would also say that sometimes you need to have a break - would your mum have the baby even if he was yelling just for enough time for you to go for a walk around the block or something. To gather your thoughts and have a bit of time just to yourself. I know it seems hard but it will do you no end of good.

My DDs have fed to sleep at night for, well, until I wean them! But I ususally put them down for naps without a feed from about 5 months I think. However each baby is different, and what works for one won't for another. It's really a question of seeing what your baby is happy with, and what you are happy with.

I think the 2 hour feeds thing sounds awful personally, if I were you the first thing I would do is try to keep him awake while he feeds so that hopefully he will take more, quicker, and not want to feed again so soon after.

Im going to an NCT group today so they can check my latch because the 2 hour feeds isnt right but my HV thinks hes taking so long to feed because hes staying on there for comfort and grazing if that makes sense?

In an ideal world i want DS to have a good feed in a lesser time and the majority of time he can fall asleep nursing but i also want him to be able to sleep without my boobs he seems to rely on it now.

Yes it does make sense he's using you as a "dummy" - suckling is comforting for them which is why dummies work (for some babies) - but I agree you don't want them to be either latched on or screaming that is not good at all.

try the sling. Try a vibratey chair or swing if you can afford one. talk to the NCT. get your mum to help out as possible and try to get a proper break away from teh sight or sound of the baby even if it's just 5 mins here and there. try to keep baby awake while feeding. try swaddling again.

getting them to go to sleep wihtout being fed to sleep normally invoves a certain amount of "training". 2 months is too young really for that. And while some babies will take to things quite easily, others won't have it at all.

I think if you can get feeds shorter and baby having proper naps in cot, then feeding to sleep is maybe something to tackle later.

Does he sleep in pram/pushchair? Could your mum take him out for an hour or so while you have a sleep/break?

Hi there. I fed dd1 to sleep when she was little but she started to settle herself to sleep at about 3months.
With dd2 I also use a sling when I know she wants comfort and doesn't need food, and also a swing settles her really well when it's not convenient to carry her in the sling.
Hope you got help with your latch at the group today.