Oversupply and expressing

[EmmaWN]

I am not totally sure but I think I could have an oversupply of milk. However, I think this could be down to me epxressing quite a lot as I like my husband to give a bottle of expressed milk so that I can have more sleep! Does anyone else seem to have oversupply from doing this and is there a way I can do this without causing oversupply? How do I know for sure if this is the issue?

My one does not seem to suffer the symptoms all the time of this but is gaining weight rapidly and often quite gassy and unhappy! She sometimes chokes as well when feeding but she also does this when I give her any meds even very slowly! She also does not suffer from watery poos or green poos as suggested. She does feed VERY frequently though.

Thanks in advance for any help as I am really struggling with this being a mum business at the moment. She is 4 weeks old BTW!

EmmaWN

Hi there

I read a really good article on la leche league's website about over supply which said it can be made worse by expressing.

I wasn't expressing but had a lot of symptoms so I followed the advice in the article and things are now much better - I'm less sore, less full, and feeds are now relaxed and enjoyable rather than feeling like a battle.

Basically, it said to feed from same side if baby asks for a feed within 2hrs of previous feed. It took about 2 weeks to settle, but I noticed an improvement within a couple of days.

Can you get on the internet to have a look at the article? It really helped me.

Stick with it - you're doing a great job.

Thanks - will try that now. Can I ask are you able to express at all now? I am so concerned about having to do it all which is why I expressed to beging with - was given advice to do that by midwife!

Thank you,
Emma

How often are you expressing?

I had too much milk from expressing too often. I was expressing after most feeds so I could top DS up. In the end I had so much milk in the fridge and freezer and was really fed up with expressing I decided to stop.
I wish I had thought of that way before 3 months tho...I hated wearing a bra because it was so uncomfortable. I still have plenty of milk for Ds now but without having boulders for boobs

Hi EmmaWN - I am having real battles with feeds and am wondering if I have oversupply as well. My son is nearly 6 weeks (though he was 3 weeks early and underdeveloped due to pre-eclampsia). Do you mind me asking what feeds are like for you?

My LO latches then within minutes starts screaming and pulling away. I have to fight him to get him back on, even though he is screaming with hunger as well as pain - and then he will pull away again. He has terrible trouble with wind (both ends) and screams in pain constantly when feeding and for some time afterwards. Last night he woke at 5 and then repeated a pattern of feeding with great difficulty for around 30 minutes, napping for 45 minutes and then feeding for 30 minutes again until about and hour ago when I settled him in the sling.

It feels like I am pouring poison down his throat when i'm feeding him. It's incredibly distressing for both of us, and his Dad who can only watch and try and reassure us both.

If an of this sounds familiar I would love to know as I am totally demoralised and desperate. Getting BF established was really hard work for us both because we were both in intensive care after the c-section and separated soon after birth. My HV says this is normal but I am getting so frustrated and can't bear the thought that after all that work, feeding is such a trauma for him. I can't believe that such distress is normal in feeding your baby - and I don't see it in any other mums.

Also, he has had frothy and green poos recently - I can't remember what this is supposed to mean, but am ff to look it up on the net. Any advice very, very, very welcome.

Emma - if there is any issue with oversupply, then expressing is really not a good idea. 4 weeks is still very early days - plenty of ways to get more rest than doing this. Windy symptoms, rapid weight gain, spluttering when feeding - all signs of possible over supply.

All you need to do at the moment, anyway, is to stop expressing. Give your body and your baby a chance to regulate in synch with each other

If after a week or so things are still the same, then maybe post again.

Hangoninthere - what you describe is not normal (dunno why your HV says it is!).

Would you start a new thread with more details? Weight, freq of feeding, whether you feed one side or two or more, if you express...then it will be easier for people to see your post and respond. This is the OP's thread and her situation is a bit different.

Hey everyone, just wanted to add in my word of caution - I too felt I had too much milk for DS early on (first two months or so), but it comes around very soon that they are going to need that extra milk. So don't be too concerned if your boobs feel really full at this time, because they will settle down.

Having said that, I didn't get on with regular expressing - it somehow interrupted the supply/demand chain and I was told that the exact content of milk differs throughout the day, eg that the milk you make at night has more sleepy stuff (melanin?). So I found it was important not to cut those feeds and substitute them with expressed milk from the morning time.

In my experience, only true demand feeding allowed us to get to 6 months exclusively bf with a happy baby who sleeps ttn.

Hangoninthere - I'm not sure about your issues with pulling away - have you considered the poss of reflux?

Ok - thanks all.

Hangoninthere - think we are slightly different - sorry!

FYI - my one feeds ok although I get the odd time she screams but briefly&she goes back on straight away. She does not feed for that long but very frequent - we rarely get a 3 hour gap and sometimes this is only because we go for a walk which settles her. She is restless between feeds and rarely sleeps and if she does she hates bieng put down and will scream. Sitting upright is better.

I have just witnessed my milk shooting across the room as she pulled off as was trying to feed her in the sling I have which she hates and she pulled off. I am pretty sure it is oversupply.

We have only had one green poo. I will stop the expressing but I am not sure I can deal with just being the soul provider for this little one with no thought of being able to express and leave her. If I get the supply back to normal can I then express?

I only express once a day after a feed - maybe twice if need to but always try and do thi after a feed which is what I was told to do by midwife. It is not that often.

I know other people express and do this without oversupply - how is this the case?

Maybe I will just have to consider formula even though I do not want to but I cannot cope at the moment as I have not slept for more than 2 hours at a time for 4 weeks - the odd 2 times I have had 4 hours it has been with OH giving bottle which I now cannot have. What are the other ways of resting you suggest when she does not sleep - it is now 15:05 and she has not slept all day for anything more than a 15min slot!

Thanks all,
Emma

I used the core night method to get DS to sttn.

But 4 weeks is so little, what you are describing sounds quite normal. Can you try to make her feed for longer at each feed. eg. if she drifts off, gently wake her up, or keep latching her back on if she pops of for any other reason. This might help to eventually space the feeds out so they become less frequent.

Emma - 4 weeks is very soon to expect things to have fallen into place....in time yes, you will be able to express and you will feel a bit more flexible, but at the moment, your supply issues are such that expressing is really a bit of a mad thing to do (biologically), sorry, though you have excellent and understandable reasons for doing it

Not everyone's experience is the same - some women can manage to express from the start, and those women who are already more-than-generous suppliers find it's not helpful. No big deal.

Your baby may well be a bit more settled when she has less of a 'fire hose' supply to deal with. So you might find you get more respite as a result.

Hope things get better

Thanks Deliakate and tiktok - I know 4 weeks is young and I knew I would struggle as I like routine! Have tried all the methods to get her to feed for longer but no joy! Even though she doesnt stay asleep for long!

Havnt expressed for two days after today and been block feeding from just one breast which made for a better feed just now. Will keep it up for 2 weeks then eveluate. I could also use some formula if OH had to give feed going forward - do not want to but it might help keep me sane too.

Thanks this has really helped and there have been many tears of late.

Emma

Glad things are a little better, Emma. Using 'all methods' to get her to feed for longer is pointless....it's stressful and interferes with the very physiological and actually rather easier way of just following what she wants to do

Giving formula at this time is not going to help things settle - it's another way of interfering with the biological process before it has time to regulate itself...better you should know this

ok - thanks - will only do this if things reall do not improve but am giving it time before doing this. Have long stopped getting her to try and feed for longer!

Emma

Not trying to confuse you, but I didn't find it pointless - it would have driven me mad to have him nipping on and off and 'snacking' all day/ night. But who knows, even if I hadn't tried to guide him to take full 'meals' maybe he would have done it anyway..... they definitely are all different.

Hi Emma

I'm now at 8 weeks and expressing a bit so I've got some in the freezer and can start to plan a bit of me time. I expressed from 4wks with dd1 with no issues but feeding has been very diff this time round! I have been co sleeping with my little one to get me through the night, but now she's going between 5 and 6 hrs at night (in her basket) and between 3 to 5 hours in the day. It was every couple of hours at 4 weeks but has really settled down now after following the la leche league advice, so I would say stick with it - it does get better.

Hangoninthere - my little one did lots of pulling away, screaming and I also felt like I was poisoning her - I know exactly how you feel and it's horrible. This, plus wind and green frothy poo are all signs of oversupply according to la leche league. It's something to do with not having long enough feeds to get the hind milk so they get full of wind - same side feeding should help. I started by offering the same side if she asked for a feed within 2hrs of previous feed, until feeding side felt empty and other side was v full. It then gets the signal to produce less, whilst baby has the opportunity to get some fatty milk and settle it's tummy.

Hope you're managing to hang on in there!

Hi Emma

I'm now at 8 weeks and expressing a bit so I've got some in the freezer and can start to plan a bit of me time. I expressed from 4wks with dd1 with no issues but feeding has been very diff this time round! I have been co sleeping with my little one to get me through the night, but now she's going between 5 and 6 hrs at night (in her basket) and between 3 to 5 hours in the day. It was every couple of hours at 4 weeks but has really settled down now after following the la leche league advice, so I would say stick with it - it does get better.

Hangoninthere - my little one did lots of pulling away, screaming and I also felt like I was poisoning her - I know exactly how you feel and it's horrible. This, plus wind and green frothy poo are all signs of oversupply according to la leche league. It's something to do with not having long enough feeds to get the hind milk so they get full of wind - same side feeding should help. I started by offering the same side if she asked for a feed within 2hrs of previous feed, until feeding side felt empty and other side was v full. It then gets the signal to produce less, whilst baby has the opportunity to get some fatty milk and settle it's tummy.

Hope you're managing to hang on in there!

oh and when we were having a really distressing feed, I found it more manageable to just feed for about 10 mins to get enough inside her to reduce her hunger a bit, then did a bit of bobbing around with her upright to settle her before trying again. Little and often was less distressing than trying to get her to have a 'full' feed all in one go.

Thanks for that - all good advice indeed and glad some expressing is possible further down the line.

I have some issues though with the fact that I cannot always tell when a breast is empty - my left side feels much different to my right as well. I also do not feel let down or when my milk comes in.

My right breast is so much bigger than my left but the left is where I have seen some impressive spray and it leaks loads while the right does not!

I am doing longer than the 2 hour thing as this does not empty one breast at all.

When will I know if things have settled as well - I am also concerned about reducing it too much - basically I am concerned about everything! I might see if I can see someone about it and get some advice on what I should be looking for as I seem to be getting confused. Saying that - she is asleep in her bassinet which is a rare thing at this time of night - maybe we are seeing some difference!

Emma

Emma - you sound a bit more easy in your mind

You don't need to know when a breast is empty. Breasts are never completely empty anyway. Their level of fullness or emptyness is not something you need to know, or can know. Sides do feel different - this is normal. Let down - whether you feel it or not is irrelevant

Don't knw what you mean about your milk 'coming in' - this is the term for the milk change at about day 3-5 postnatal.

Why are you concerned about needing to empty the breast???

Hi Emma

Ditto to tiktok about breasts not being completely empty - I meant that when dd has fed from one side for longer than a few minutes, it feels a lot more comfortable and less heavy than it did before! The key is not whether the breast is empty, but whether baby has had plenty of the fatty hindmilk. You'll know when it's working as baby will be more settled when feeding, will feed for a bit longer and will start to go longer between feeds, but like I think I said earlier, it took a good 2 weeks (and quite a few tears!) before I noticed a significant difference.

With dd1, I never felt letdown or the milk coming through - I just knew it was doing as I could hear her gulping and when she came off, she sometimes had a milky mouth! With dd2 it's completely different, I feel letdown all the time! So, my point is not to worry if you don't feel anything, as long as she is putting on weight and having wet and dirty nappies, then she is getting what she needs. With both babies, I've felt different on both sides and according to my sister (who's a breastfeeding counsellor) that is perfectly normal too! My right side always feels fuller and gets sore a lot easier than the left, but both did a lot of impressive squirting before things settled down!

I also wouldn't worry about reducing it too much, as it all works on supply and demand - once she is getting enough from one breast in one feed, she'll settle between feeds for a decent period of time, so when she asks for the next feed, you'll put her on the other breast - she'll take what she needs from there and your supply will settle down.

Definately get some advice if you're strugglin or want some reassurance that everything is OK - I went to my sister as she's a breastfeeding counsellor for the NCT, but they are available to everyone even if you're not a member and will come out and watch you feed if you need them to. I believe Little Angels and La Leche League do the same.

Keep at it - it WILL get better.

Sally