Peer supporter BF a toddler - offputting?

[feedingatoddler]

Have namechanged as I don't know whether anyone related to this is on MN. Don't really mind them knowing I have posted (as am interested in opinions) but not sure I want it linked to my normal posting name!

Basically, I am due to start breastfeeding peer support training soon with my local children's centre. I have been waiting to do this for a long time and am looking forward to it.

Unrelated to this is that I am still feeding my 16 month old DS, I still feed on demand and he is a big milk drinker even during the day, especially in a new place where a lot is going on. He tends to be either very confident or very shy and in new situations is quite unsure and wants to feed constantly. This is fine by me, I found it slightly awkward at first as I have recently moved and felt that it might put people off talking to me etc, but have made some new friends now and my attitude is more that if they are put off by that I probably don't want to be friends with them in the first place!

Anyway, the lady who is running the training course has had a word with me to say that someone (not anyone from the bf group) has expressed a concern about DS being quite constant and on/off with his feeding, and that she knows that it is fine and doesn't have a problem with it at all, but that it might be offputting to someone who is quite shy about breastfeeding or perhaps hasn't made up their mind yet. (One of the new initiatives is to do the 30 week pregnancy appointment at the centre and just intro the peer supporters and breastfeeding group in case anyone wants to ask questions)

Now, on the one hand I do understand the point being made, that it could appear offputting to someone who isn't sure, and at first I thought fair enough, but then I thought well - it is my child who stands to lose out directly because of this, and I think it would be difficult because he is not easily distracted at all, and TBH I really don't feel as though I am being exhibitionist or anything - he asks fairly nicely most of the time, rather than just grabbing at me, and I feed him quickly and discreetly - and I will need to take him to that centre a few times anyway, during which he will want to nurse, until he gets used to it as it's a new environment for him. After which he will probably want to feed less anyway. Or I could do the training but stay away from there until he is old enough to understand me saying "later".

I know I need to talk to the people at the centre about this again but just wanted some opinions on it really. I still want to do the training and I do want to help people but I am not sure about this issue on what to do - if anyone could give me feedback on whether they would have/would find it offputting that would be really helpful as well, thank you!

I use to think that in feeding older babies/toddlers that I might be off putting to new mums. But I have found the opposite to be true, even the mothers who frankly thought extended nursing was freaky, seem interested, when they meet someone actually doing it.

Even if the mother thinks it is terrible to nurse an older child, I can not see how it would affect the support element from the OP.

Even if mothers thought 'No way would I feed that long' surely they also think 'well, that mother must know about breastfeeding, to feed so long' ?

I hadn't really thought about this before as i haven't had my baby yet but i guess it's pretty normal for peer-supporters to have toddlers with them at groups?

It doesn't really matter to me whether you're feeding or not but i wonder how you manage situations where somebody is pouring their heart out and reaching out for support and your toddler demands your attention instead?

It must be really hard? I guess i would feel like i couldn't take attention away from the supporter's LO so i would probably hold back from asking for any help/attention - i suppose it depends how demanding the toddler is (and the perception is certainly that a breast-feeding toddler is more demanding of the mother, whether this is true or not)

Well it's less about technical knowledge and more about just how the mother perceives you. If asked, I'll explain my situation, if not I don't wantto seem radical by bringing it up. I k=now that's NOT what the OP intends but it's how it might come across.

good point fluffles, and i'm hoping that's something our trainer is going to address. I'm guessing it's fine in some situations (informal AN/PN groups etc) and less in othres (on ward, home visits)

Apolgies in advance if these thoughts seem rather jumbled. I can't think of a logical way to get them down.

First and most important well done for BFing until 16mo - that's a really inspiring example! Bear in mind that you'll need to talk about the fact it hasn't always been easy, there are tricky patches but you can persevere but don't feel bad if you can't give up. That's a lot to get over but if you say it you won't look smug that you've managed to continue to 16mo. I would certainly count you are being very knowledgeable, but maybe also concerned that you'd look down on anyone who didn't choose your way. OTOH if you said something like 'I've chosen to extended BF and it's working for me but I won't judge you if you choose not to and I'll give you advice and support which is appropriate to you' that would put a lot of my fears to rest.

Also I think it emphasises that BF is BF and the mechanics of it are pretty much the same, which is a good thing.

You might need to be prepared to be open about your experience. If it was me in that class I'd want to know ALL about it. I don't know whether I want to BF for that long but would be interested to find out about it.

I think I see what the woman is saying. One of my BIG concerns as someone who hasn't even started BF yet would be seeing your DS wanting to feed on demand and how you dealt with that. I know, intellectually, it's fine and normal and thoroughly support it but at the same time I'm not sure I want to be in that situation because I don't know how it would work! What happens if you're in a situation where you can't BF? If you're away from your DS do you get rock hard boobs/leak a lot? I would have so many questions because I'm honestly not sure about any of it, so I think you'd need to be prepared to answer them, and I count myself as very pro-BF in principle.

I think you would have to normalise it before you did it. I would find it weird if you went off to a corner with your DS and BF and then came back without accepting that it might seem odd. If you said right at the beginning you were still BF and your DS might need you for a few minutes then it would be okay. I guess a big issue is that it's not normal for many people so you would need to warn them!

Of course I'm not even pregnant yet so my feelings might have changed by 30 weeks!

Just wanted to check in and say thank you for all the posts - I have read them all and will be back to answer properly later

I have just read this thread with interest, I am most of the way through a peer supporter course and have in fact been helping out at a bfing group today, to which I brought my ds, who is 2.1yo. I don't think anyone was put off, at least I hope not!
I agree with Babieseverywhere in that we need mums nursing older babies and toddlers to normalise bfing beyond 6 weeks. Not that I did it to do that, DS was just a bit unsettled as he hadn't been to that group since he was about 8 months old. A lot of the ladies on my peer supporter course are also bfing older babies and toddlers (one mum is bfing 14mo twins ) and I hope they feel the same way.
DS rarely asks to feed in public it is more if we are at a mum and baby group he may ask for it if he needs it.
Incidentally, my course leader is the area's bfing co-ordinator, and has 2 dds one who she bf until she was just over 2, the other she is still bfing (I think she is a little older than ds).

I guess its all a matter of perspective - I personally think that 16mths is still baby not toddler (even though can walk) and would not bat an eyelid and would not have done before I bf. I would have smiled, and thought, how lovely.

Unfortunately, there are those who are a little dubious about bf at all, or past 14wks or past 6 mths etc. and I suppose they may be put off.

You will inspire some, shock some, put some off - but imo, you should definitely not be put off.

I would have found this offputting to see if I was heavily pg. .

Reason: I would have thought that I was also obliged to feed to 16m and beyond and when you have never fed before, that is a daunting length of time/prospect.

As it was, I fed both of mine til 12/13 months. At the outset, I just felt I would do what I could.

I remember having found the thought of bf a toddler positively weird when I was pregnant and when my daughter was new born. I started to hang out at the breastfeeding group anyway, because they were nice, and after a few months I realised that suddenly I was one of those people feeding an "older" child, and I've no idea how I go there. The daughter is now 14 months old and still gets fed once or twice a day, but usually only at home, as I just don't want to do it in public anymore, want to be able to wear bf-unfriendly dresses and also teach my daughter that there are boundaries, and that while mummy is happy to give her a night time or morning feed when cuddling on the sofa, she just doesn't want her diving for the boob in a cafe, where she's perfectly able to drink out of a cup or eat a sandwich.

This is my personal choice. I don't find the sight of an under two fed in public offputting anymore, but I choose to avoid being the one who does it.

I can understand where the lady running the course is coming from - bf peer support is a lot about encouraging those who are reluctant. Don't really know what to advise though, apart from feeding as discretely as possible, which I'm sure you do anyway.

OK I am back now - lots of interesting thoughts on this thread, thanks.

I am definitely still going to do the training. I just need to decide what to do - if anything - about DS and his feeding once I am trained. The course is 6 weeks long, and I think that there are other procedures etc which need to happen before I will be "let loose" so it may well be another 2-3 months before I am doing anything anyway, which gives me time to get DS used to that centre, and also he will be a bit older and understand more, so it may not actually be an issue as much in the end. 16mo is a funny age because he appears more as a toddler (when I had a younger child I definitely thought of about 15mo+ as a toddler) but he still has very limited understanding of concepts and not much language, so it's difficult to get him to wait etc and I do think that his needs for comfort etc are still important to meet quickly.

I am glad someone mentioned the distraction of the toddler in general because I think that is something I will definitely bring up on the course - it would be just as distracting if he came up and wanted me to read a book, for example, while I was trying to help somebody. And IME DS is less likely to want feeding in the first place if he's distracted by someone else. Biscuits and drinks don't cut it if he can see me, he knows what he wants!

The lady who runs the course is a trained BFC and very knowledgeable about breastfeeding but perhaps a bit too theory-based sometimes - her own children are grown up, so I think sometimes she forgets what it is like to be in a particular situation. I am wondering whether she is thinking too much about this and "picking on" me as the easy option as there are other mums in the group who fit into "lentil weaving breastfeeding hippy" stereotypes by dress style, etc, and I don't think that she would say anything to them. (Not that she should!)

A good point made (several times ) about people seeing the example of me feeding to 16mo+ and feeling they have to live up to that - I wish there was a way of saying that I don't think that everyone should/has to do this, without it coming across patronising, because I wouldn't judge anyone for their choices and just want to help mums to feed for as long as they want to - whether that is a few weeks, 6 months, 12 months, or longer.

I think the 30 week appointment is just going to be a normal midwife appointment, held at the centre, with the option to speak to a peer supporter if the woman wants to - but I am not sure. I doubt there will be a creche for this. There will be a creche for the training course.

Interesting that the consensus tends to be that during pregnancy it would be more off-putting - actually I think I can relate to this as well! I used to post on another forum and remember posting that I was worried about feeding past 12 months because I found the thought a bit "yuk" - but evidently, here I am. Another thing I'd love to be able to put into words without coming across patronising.

Sorry as I haven't namechecked anyone else but I wanted to say that SPB - you are spot on, just what I was thinking. That it's possible they might see me feeding DS and think "She is so different from me I can't possibly take her seriously" - which I would be quite happy, in that situation, to refer them to someone they might feel more comfortable with, but they would be unlikely to say anything, IYSWIM. It's not like online when you can say "Thanks for the advice, but it's not for me" - most people would feel that was rude in real life.

Thank you to all the people who have said well done etc

Frakkinaround not sure if your questions are hypothetical or not but thought I would answer them anyway

What happens if you're in a situation where you can't BF?

• If I am on a bus etc or in a car (which is really the only situation I have been in where I can't bf) then I will try to hold him off by offering distraction and singing songs etc, but he really is not happy, so I tend to try and avoid situations like this! He sleeps easily in his buggy/carseat so it hasn't happened that often.

If you're away from your DS do you get rock hard boobs/leak a lot?

• I haven't been away from him for any length of time TBH - but this is personal choice not related to breastfeeding, I haven't left him overnight for example. He sometimes is away from me for half days and I sometimes feel a little bit engorged when he comes home, but not rock-hard and I never leak any more. I think it all just settles down after a while.

Do you know which charity trained this BFC ?

Maybe LLL, ABM, BfN or NCT ?

On the BfC course I'm on, we are told to include a statement at the start of a group...along the lines of 'you might see/hear some ideas you haven't heard of before, feel free to use what you think will be useful to you and leave the rest'

Hopefully it'll work as by the time I'm finished I'll be tandem nursing a 4yo and a 18mtho!

Re. How to avoid being accused of smuggery, I always trot out the line - this is just what works for my family, every family is different and what works for them will be different. That covers your back for everything from co vs cot sleeping, cio vs not, disposables vs cloth, BLW vs jars.....

OOP - which organisation is this trained bfc from? I can;t think any of the established organisations would raise the issue she raised with you.

OOP = OP

I thought it wasn't the BFC who wad concerned, she knows it's fine but she's passing on a concern someone else has which, as we are discovering, is a valid point.

yes, but i think the point is she handled it badly,, no matter how 'nice' she was the OP did feel criticised - and she is worthy of support as much as anyone else!

Hardly a 'valid point', what we have found out is those people who are not exposed to breastfeeding in their day to day lives. i.e. some pregnant mothers may have limited ideas about nursing and the duration of 'acceptable' nursing.

If this person was a properly trained BFC (and like Tiktok I doubt she is trained, due to what she said and how she said it) she would of been able to discuss this 'issue' with the complainer. Educating the complainer about toddler nursing and frequency of feeds etc and dealt with the complaint in that way, without having to raise anything with the OP.

But surely the fact that this issue was raised in the first place by anyone means that the OP is likely to cone across this attitude and the sooner she starts thinking about it the better. If the BFC had dealt with the person who had the concern then that's great, I'm sure she did but I don't think we actually know, but it's only one person and the OP might have to deal with the next one solo. I do agree it wasn't handled well telling the OP the way she did but I still think it should have been raised, even as a general point that some people may be scared/worried/shocked by extended BF.

"Anyway, the lady who is running the training course has had a word with me to say that someone (not anyone from the bf group) has expressed a concern about DS being quite constant and on/off with his feeding, and that she knows that it is fine and doesn't have a problem with it at all, but that it might be offputting to someone who is quite shy about breastfeeding or perhaps hasn't made up their mind yet."

We might not like the attitude but it does exist and needs to be dealt with. Raising it AS WELL AS dealing with it at the original source would be the only responsible thing to do. I'm sure it's an issue that BFCs will need to address at some point - that some people might find it offputting - so why not raise it now and let the OP work out how she personally is going to deak with it. As I said I count myself pretty pro-BF for someone who's never done it but one thing that scares me slightly about the pro-pro-pro-BF brigade is the way other people's negative feelings about BF or e tended BF are handled. BF is great, it is best for baby, extended BF should be more widespread than it is and normalised but concerns do need to be handled really carefully. I worked with a mother who was put off BF by a rather militant LLL BFC precisely because her feelings and concerns about it weren't listened to and she was just told extended BF was great and normal and this is how it should be so when she was having trouble she didn't want to go to them. I think things could have been very different if the BFC hadn't been so defensive and more open. That IMHO is the situation that needs to be avoided here and there's nothing wrong with raising the concept that some people might have an issue. The BFC doesn't, she knows it's fine, and I haven't seen anywhere that she's telling the OP to stop.

I'm sorry if the OP feels criticised for her choice, that's obviously not a good thing but that probably stems more from the handling of the issue than the issue itself. I for one would certainly still encourage the OP to do exactly as she does, but at the same time she needs to be aware of her audience and work out how she's going to deal with the problem when it arises. Perhaps that's where this BFC is falling down. She (correctly IMO) made the OP aware of a potential problem but didn't offer any possible solutions.

1."Raising it AS WELL AS dealing with it at the original source would be the only responsible thing to do" I agree, maybe the OP could ask the teacher if she raised these issues with the complainer and how it was discussed. I would be interested in the response given.

1. Anyone nursing a toddler is under no illusions on how some people will disagree with their feeding choice. The OP does not need retelling this, believe me

1. You are talking about how a close minded attitude from a BFC or peer supporter can be damaging. I would extend this to a close minded attitude from anyone can be damaging and that includes a pregnant woman thinking so rigidity about her feeding choices, that one look at an older nursling will change her mind about breastfeeding. Certainly she may feel that she will never nurse that long (I thought the same myself) but I do not believe that people are that weak willed.

1. "I think things could have been very different if the BFC hadn't been so defensive and more open." Sorry I am struggling with this bit, are you talking about the OP (who is just a mum ATM not trained yet) or the teacher ?

1. I agree it would be inappropriate for a BFC to have a child with her whilst working, that is any child irrelevant of feeding method as that would take away from the mother centered approach to support.

But we are talking about here about peer supporters which are a different kettle of fish. It depends how the peer supporters work. In our area peer supporters volunteer alongside HCP. We can take our children with us and if they nurse, then it is not a problem, as we are only there to listen to mothers concerns and signpost them to HV or alternative source of information not to help directly, the training is not in depth enough for that.

1. Lastly I wonder if people would feel that it is still appropriate to report a negative comment directly to the mother it concerns, if the comment was racist and the issue skin colour ? Just a thought.

Well have only read OP, but 2 things to say:

IMO 16months is not a toddler, still baby so cant see why its an issue and the other thing is I BF DD2 till she was 22months and I work at a Children centre.

I think its terrible its even been raised with you, its no ones bussiness.

We run a BF support group from our centre, and I know 2 peer supporters that are feeding children past 1year, it doesnt seem to bother anyone here, so go for it and dont worry about it

HTH

In respnse to 3 I don't thnk it's the one look that would be the problem, it would be the feelings of inadequacy etc and concerns the woman may not feel able to raise that prey on her such as 'omigosh I'll never be able to stop' or 'she's obviously had it easy doing it for this long' which is why I maintain the OP needs to make people aware of it and be open about it.

For 4 I was talking about the mother I worked with who gave up because the BFC she saw seemed close minded so she didn't feel able to get support when she was struggling so only managed a couple of weeks, which is in itself good but maybe she could have carried on for longer - we won't ever know because she didn't feel she could approach her BFC.

I stil think this has been handled badly and blown put of proportion. It's not like racism, it's making people aware that a (quite overt) choice, which is a perfectly acceptable choice, MAY be seen as strange or off-putting by others particularly if they're not used to it. It just needs careful handling and I personally would rather have been made aware of the concern (preferably with some soothing comment along the lines of 'I dealt with it and they're not worried) than it be left unspoken and then find out 6 months later there was something I could have done differently. Also I wouldn't have expected that negative attitude at a peer support clinic so would rather be aware it existed!