What's going on.....daytime bf refusal

[Booper13]

Hi,
Help please. My 4mo ds is refusing to bf during the day. He will still bf at night (about 5 feeds between 10pm and 8am). He was ill with bronchiolitis 2 weeks ago, and didn't feed much for a couple of days. Then resumed, but started fussing at breast and I had to keep changing position - rugby hold and lying down. Now we have reached the stage of refusal during the day (unless he is a bit sleepy and it is dark - then sometimes he'll bf/sometimes not). I try to keep offering the breast, but he refuses and screams and then guzzles a bottle - this is what he's holding out for obv )I am expressing, but don't get much out. Also have 2 year old, so can't spend a long time expressing. Will my supply keep up due to the night feeds? Any suggestions to coax him back to daytime bf? He used to have 1 bottle of ebm or formula at 7pm each night. Is this enough to provoke bottle preference?
Thanks for all advice.

Maybe your milk supply has dropped a bit with him not feeding from you as much? I personally wouldn't replace feeds with a bottle, as otherwise your milk supply will drop more and he may get to the point of preferring the bottle over you, as he gets more from it quicker etc. Expressing isn't as effective as the baby on you, at increasing milk supply. Also I've heard that a baby can get more from you, than using a pump, so try not to think you're only producing 2 fl oz, as that's probably not true.

If you keep feeding at night your milk supply will be fine at night, as it's all supply and demand.

There is a lot of advice on the kellymom website on all the various issues on breastfeeding, have a look on there as I suspect they will have the answer/ advice/ tips you need.

He will feed more at night if he is missing feeds in the day, so you need to get the feeds in the day back on track. You could try teething gel before a feed, in case the sore gums are putting him off feeding? Try feeding somewhere quiet in case distraction is the issue? There's whole load more suggestions on kellymom wensite.

Hope things get better soon x

Excatly the same thing happened to me, my ds was 6 mths though and on some solids too. But completely refused breastfeeds during the day, although having approx 5 through out the night. Supply didn't seem to be affected, and eventually i managed to get him to feed if I took him into our room and closed the curtains...maybe it felt more like night time when I did that??( put our toddler in her room next door to play) He is now 9 months and I still have to do this to get him to have some during the day, and luckily he's down to one feed in the night. Not sure if this is much help.. Good luck

Thanks teaandcakeplease - will have a look on Kellymom. I know giving a bottle will just compound the situation, but how do you avoid this when confronted with a hungry screaming baby?

Katiepotatie - I'm glad I'm not alone in this, but sorry you've had this hassle too. What did you do during the day when he refused to bf? Did you give a bottle? I had some success yesterday getting him to bf during the day when he was sleepy and we lay down on the bed, curtains drawn, but apparently today he is wise to this ruse and didn't fall for it!! I can reconcile myself to it if he continues to bf at night, but I'm just worried he will soon refuse this too.

I think you should give La Leche a call tomorrow. They maybe be able over the phone to give you some great ideas.

Personally I'd feed them as often as you can to encourage your milk supply again and then maybe they won't get to the point of being so hungry they yell. But that's all very well if they won't latch on. This is why you should give La Leche a call. Someone over the phone who is experienced will really be able to help you better than me

Really hope things get better x

I suppose it is slightly different for me as he was having some solids too, I never gave a bottle though. I just persevered with the going to bedroom with drawn curtains, quiet,lying down ect. I actually put him in his grow bag sometimes as to make him feel like night time.

I agree with teaandcakesplease try calling La Leche. Do you have a breastfeeding cafe near you?

If he is still feeding during the night he is prob getting enough, I know that doesn't help much,but some babies sleep through from that age, so can go for long periods without. you just want him to swap to days rather than nights. You could try offering before he gets too hungry? A friend did 4 hourly bfds

I hope it gets easier or you x

Could he be getting distracted? My 5 month DD is a very reluctant day feeder as she just finds the world too interesting. But if I take her to a dark room and don't talk then she gets going.

Thanks for replies. We have been more succesful today. In the last 24 hours, all have been bf apart from 2 feeds (he has about 9 or 10 feeds). 1 of the 2 bottles was formula and the other was ebm. He totally refused the ebm (expressed yesterday) and screamed - changed to formula and he drank this. I'm now wondering if something I'm eating/drinking may be having an effect. Although, the fact that he has never refused a bf at night prob means this isn't the case. V confusing. Anyway, hopefully it will continue to improve, or at least not get any worse. When he does have a bottle, he only ever has about 100ml, so still getting majotity of intake from bf........pity this is overnight though!

Did you look on the kellymom website? The section on breastfeeding a slightier older infant has a fair bit on there on ideas, as I had a glance to check. You have to click about a bit, in a few sections to find exactly what you need, but it may help.

• slightly

I really sympathise - having exactly the same problem with dd (7 months old but 10 weeks prem). Even worse, dd won't take a bottle so I can't top her up. Have tried feeding in a dark room. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

booper this happened to me at 12 weeks. And at 18 weeks it's still ongoing but improving. I think in my case DS didnt like my overactive letdown as it made him choke. That combined with getting to 4 months and the world is too exciting meant he rarely fed awake. So now I feed him as part of his naps which helps. He's getting better and I can persuade him to eat awake if he's hungry but not starving. If he is starving, I calm him down using white noise and take him to a dark room. I also lie back to help slow the flow.
I spoke to NCT and Le Leche who suggested lots of skin to skin, feeding in the bath and offering boob casually when DS isn't hungry. Also have lots of fun time too. Carry DS around and offer boob at every hunger cue.
Also I took DS to the GP to rule out ear infection, thrush etc just in case.

Thanks to all for advice/encouragement. Kellymom was helpful re suggestions. Igglybuff - I'm feeding as much as possible when he's sleepy, and we do lie down. I don't think my let down is a problem though - he used to splutter, but hasn't really done that for a while. I think it must be a combination of the milk not coming fast enough and distraction. I'll just keep going and hope he gets over it. Slightly worried I'm making a bit of a rod for my own back by encouraging so much night feeding, but I guess while I'm feeling ok doing it I'll continue.
Ladylush - does DD not get really starving then or is she quite happy to skip a lot of feeds? Does she refuse completely or just have V short feeds?
Aren't babies weird wee characters!!

Booper - I did a lot of nightfeeds but they slowly reduced as we worked out a system for day feeds (ie part of the naps). It took a few weeks to work out it was my let down - he hadn't choked in ages before he stopped but after tempting him back on one afternoon, he point blank refused after choking. I could only persuade him by switching sides. Also if he latched on awake, he'd only take the very end of the nipple and reluctantly suck before pulling off.

If you do give a bottle, try giving one with a newborn teat so he has to work for it. Or you can use a syringe (you can get them from your chemist - used for medicine. Stick it in the side of baby's cheek so they don't push it out with their tongue.)

good luck. I found it really hard but speaking to NCT and LeLeche helped - even if it was to have a bit of a cry! They have some good practical suggestions.

Booper - she just has very short feeds. Now that we have started solids I think she is keener to have those than my milk. She seems to want bm when tired (to go off to sleep iyswim). I think my letdown is quite fast and sometimes she does splutter but can't see why this would bother her in the daytime but not at night.