Is stopping bf my only option.

[peachespaige]

Hi there.
My son is 16 weeks old and ebf. I'd really like to bf him until he's 6 months and then see how we feel.
But he has never gone for longer than 2 hours at night without a feed and with 2 other children Im now absolutely exhausted.
I really think the only option is to stop bf and start on formula so that I can get some sleep.
I know people say it will get better or wait until he's eating solids etc but he just doesnt sleep, he doesnt cry but just wakes, fusses feeds for 10 mins and then goes back to sleep and then is awake again usually 1 hour and 20 minutes after his last feed. I really cant go on like this.
He is so smiley and wonderful and loves bf but I cant tell you how tired I am.
I wonder if its always hunger or that he wakes and can only feed back to sleep as thats how I get him to sleep at bed time.
Also in the day he'll quite often sleep from 11 until 2 but thats only if he's been out in the pram first to get him to sleep then Ill leave him in the pram. But if I tried it in his crib he wouldnt settle even if fed to sleep he'll probably wake after 45 mins.
Any tips on either how to start bottle feeding or how to make him sleep more!!
Many thanks.

Hi, I don't think bottle/formua would necessarily help him sleep any better. with mine i fed him every 2 hours during the day and he would go longer at night.
I don't think it's hunger, more likely sleep habits thats waking him. it's really common for them to nap for 40 mins at this age.
maybe start looking at teaching him to settle himself during the day in his cot?

How often is he feeding in the day? Any chance of increasing the frequency in the hope that he'll build up during the day and maybe sleep more at night?

Hopefully someone a bit more expert will be along in a bit...

Oh poor you!

Am sure that you'll get good advice re: improving sleeps during day. My only contribution is word of warning re: expectation that bottle feeding will make your ds sleep longer at night - have friends who switched to bottles/formula and found that this didn't happen and had additional faff of preparing nighttime bottles as well.

Sleep deprivation is rotten rotten rotten.

How does he sleep in the early evening - i.e. would an earlier bedtime for you be any help? Could you start expressing in the morning to get enough for a late evening feed which your partner could give while you try and bank some sleep? Does your ds have a dummy? Is that something that might help to space feeds a bit more?

Hope you get some constructive advice.

Ther is absolutely no guarantee formula will make him sleep longer and you might give up bf for nothing.
Can you co-sleep?
Also in few months he's bound to sleep for longer periods- even if he won't be sleeping through, I would be surprised if he wakes every 2 hours at 6 months.
I would wait a couple of months and see how it goes.

Winnybella is right. Lots of people stop BF because they feel so desperate and have to do something. In fact studies show that BF babies sleep more than FF babies !

And also second the advice about co-sleeping as it's the only guaranteed way to get any kip at this age ... you don't want to be sitting up in bed to feed or, god forbid, getting up to make bottles.

Agree with everybody else, it is unlikely to be hunger, more likely sleep habit.

I'd second co-cleeping, 'twas the only thing that kept me sane last time round.

You could also try Elisabeth Pantley's No Cry Sleep Solution which has suggestions on how to gradually dissolve the boob/sleep association that a lot of babies have.

Have you tried a dummy?

Hope you get some kip soon.

Co-sleeping...second, third or fourth this one.
Also FF don't think this will guantee a sleeper either. Have your tried a baby hammock? We had one, it was our saviour, best amount of money spend on ebay.
Had an Amby, but there are others out there.

Thank you for your replys.

Ds isnt at all fond of a dummy! However Ive tried to unlatch him at bedtime and pop in a dummy so he wont always need to use me as a dummy. This sort of work but he cant keep it in his mouth! Its like he sucks too hard and it pops out.
Last night he slept from 7.30 until 10.30 then from 11 until 1am then from 1.15 until 2.20 at which point I tried the dummy to help him settle rather then feed, we did this for half an hour until I ended up feeding him and he was genuinely hungry, put him back down and he was up finishing his feed 20 mins later!! This all ended around 3.30 then he woke again at 4.50 and I fed laying down until 8am on and off.
Its always been like this, my saving grace is that he doesnt cry and goes back to sleep fairly quickly.
Im so so tired. This could be the 4 month growth spurt making it worse I spose.

I thought the point of maybe giving some formula or expressed breast milk at night was not that baby sleeps more but that mummy can sleep while someone else feeds!

We did this. Sometimes I feel guitly but when I remmebr how tired I was and how much better I felt when DD did a feed in the night I rememebr it was the best decision for us. My supply was still enough for when I breast fed but having the option of a bottle was fantastic. Also meant I could worry less about if I wasn;t around.

I expressed and left as much as I could in freezer, any more needed was formula.

I breast fed till dd 18 months, did peer suport stuff and am very pro brestfeeding.

I was in a similar situation with DS and having to look after 2DDs in the day, I was exhausted. LIke others say there are no guarantees, but I was EBF all day and night and I decided it wouldn't work for me so... I BF during the day, gave a bottle of formula at 7pm, 10pm, 4am and then back to the boob 7am (this was when he was really little.) The fact that I actually got gaps between feeds was good enough for me but as he got bigger those gaps got bigger and then disappeared so he was back to being EBF.
Sadly, he dropped the boob at 6mths in favour of food and bottles. I was upset as I really enjoyed it an BF DDs to 1yr each.
Co-sleeping works for some but I couldn't do it as I'd get no sleep at all.
HTH x

I was going to add (before DD shut down PC....) that dd was similar and that it will get better (you prob know this but wanted to help)

Is it possible to bf as much as possuble between 4 and 7 in evening (with over DCs???!!?)

I suppose I wanted to get across that you can add a bottle for your sanity but that it doesn;t need to stop breast feeding.

I don't see the problem with falling asleep on the pram during the day. DD used to sleep in her sling (the only place she would sleep during the day) I am a big fan of doing whatever works for you and your child and going with the flow is so much easier than trying to change a babies needs.

In your situation co sleeping seems to be the natural way to go to get more sleep. As you already able to nurse lying down with a baby which needs to be close to mum or on the breast to sleep. If you took him to bed at the start of the evening lie down, plug him in, there is no reason why you shouldn't get a good nights sleep. Worth a couple of nights try ?

"I thought the point of maybe giving some formula or expressed breast milk at night was not that baby sleeps more but that mummy can sleep while someone else feeds!"

Couple of thoughts...

1. If giving this bottle results in less overall sleep that night, who will get up with the baby at night ? If it is the mother, is the short bottle break worth it ?

1. If the gap between the breastfeeds is too big (especially at night) this may have an impact on the mother's milk supply. The more frequently an bottle is offered, the bigger gap between feeds and the younger the child the larger the potential damage to the milk supply.

1. The person offering to make, clean, sterilize, feed bottle to baby could do any number of other things to help a tired mother. Babysit so the mother can have a nap day or night. Do housework, cook for the mother, take out the older children. Bath, nappy changes and generally parent the baby without feeding. All these things reduce the tiredness level of a mother.

No reason why a mother could not go to bed early and have the baby cared for downstairs and brought to her only for feeds. For some reason, mothers seem to get a lot of volunteers to bottle feed the baby and precious other offers of help. I find this odd.

God I was in exactly the same boat about 18 months ago .

I did stop bf, in despair, and it was a monster battle to get him to take a bottle.

Not really worth it as, surprise, surprise, he's just an appalling sleeper.

The only thing that was good was that someone else could feed him once he'd accept bottles. But in retrospect, that could have been EBM not formula and I should've carried on bf.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing! I'd just say, don't pin all your hopes on ff. I'd agree with the co-sleeping. I had a bedside crib which was invaluable.

Oh and he is a lot better now though would be a lot harder if we hadn't persevered with a dummy. I know dummies are not to everyone's liking but they literally saved my sanity with this one.

peaches - you were on the Oct 10 postnatal thread?

I was in the same boat - DD waking every 2 hours (i was a wreck). The one thing that has changed is i moved her out of my room (thinking she couldn't possibly sleep any worse)

i was desperate and she has slept better since - i co-slept with her last week as she wouldn't settle and she fed all night (at simialr frequencies to what you describe)

last night she went 4 hours between feeds which is utter bliss

you will find lots of moral support on the thread as quite a few of us have frequent wakers

Also, i am determined to get to 6 months EBF so i know how you feel

peaches, re dummy falling out because sucked too hard - I know exactly what you mean, DS1 used to do that .

NUK dummies stayed put - they have a slightly flattened shape, more similar to BFing nipple, apparently , sorry I could not find a better photo of the actual teat shape.

FWIF, DS1 was a total dummy addict, DS2 never sucked anything (other than for feeds obviously) and DS3 22 months has a dummy for sleeping which lives in his cot.

I would agree with rubyslippers, if I got to 4 consequtive hours of sleep, I could survive much saner better.

Thanks again.
Im going to keep on with the dummy and see if maybe its worse at the moment due to a growth spurt.
Dp has said that he will do night feeds if we decide to offer bottles!!!
Its very tempting......Id like to get to 6 months ebf though.
If I did want to offer the odd bottle, hows best to make the transition??
ruby Yes Im still lurking on the Oct 09 thread. This is the first time Ive actually had the energy to type.
I tried to make leek and potato soup at the weekend (a firm favourite in our house) and couldnt remember if I was meant to boil the pots first, ended up looking on line...total loss of brain!

Meant to add that we are using a nuk dummy pacific as thats the only one ds2 would use.

Peaches,

I now mix feed my 13wk old DD. I express what i can, when i can through the day (usually 2 sittings). Then add my BM to formula. usually 1/3 formula to 2/3 breast. I Bf 6:30am, 10:30am, 1:30pm, give a bottle of breast and formula mix at 4pm and then breast at 7pm when i put her in her cot to sleep, i then give her a dream bottle feed again of mixed formula and brest at 10:30pm.

I did have some initial problems with her taking the bottle and found she would only take it if she was really hungry so initally only offered it her after she'd had a 4 hr feeding gap. Now she'll take it much more easily (although has to be at right temp - too cold and she refuses).

Let DH give him the evening feeds and you go to bed when your other children do. That is what i did until DD began going to sleep at 7pm.

Good Luck x

I have a DC1 who was formula fed (probs with BF), and now DC2 who is breatsfed and 8 weeks old. All I would add is that I am personally finding more sleep with BF than bottle. Yes he wakes more often, but the effect of the hormones in helping you both get back to sleep more than compensates... With bottle feeding I would spend ages winding and settling DC, and then lie awake for about an hour after each feed.
Also, I have introduced a 10 o'clock bottle which DH does (I go to bed at 9!); and am making a point of only feeding DC when he properly cries, as when he wimpers sometimes he gives up, this seems to be giving me 3-4 hours between night feeds.

Good luck!!

Hi again, peaches,
I mixfed DSs1 and 2, and IME it worked best if EBM or FF in a bottle was given by A.N.Other person other than yourself IYKWIM. So get your DH or gran or somebody to offer the first bottle.
If you want to continue BFing also, then try and not make it the same time of day that you offer the bottle. These LOs get wise v quickly .
Also be aware that mixfeeding can be a slippery slope: more FF, less feeding, less stimulation of milk supply which leads to more FF, etc etc, you get the picture (that is with hindsight what happened with my DS1). Having said that, a lot of people manage to mixfeed perfectly happily.

And yeah to the NUK fan club !

Agree to some extent about erson who would give bottle feed could do other things. But I wasn;t talking about going to bed early while other carer looks after baby - I was talking about the feeds between 1 and 6 in the morning that I, personally, found hell.

DH gave a bottle at feed that fell around 2-4 so I could sleep from 11 till 5 or 6. This made a massive difference to me and not noticeble diference to feeding.

There is no reason why the other person can;t give this one night feed and help!

mumblecrumble, TBH it is just a rant of mine, people offer to help bottle feed the baby and sit on the sofa feet up, whilst the mother is running around doing the housework and ironing...grrr. Might start a new thread and rant there instead.

It sounds like you and your DH had a working agreement to give you more sleep and luckily your milk supply must of been robust enough, hence not affected by the large gap in feeds at night. Sadly not many women could do this regularly and keep their milk. Glad it worked for you, 6/7 hours sleep with a baby is good going