Struggling and need support - help!

[MamaLazarou]

I had my little boy on 20th Jan. The birth was quite tough on both of us (he was eventually hoovered out by ventouse after gruelling 24-hr labour).

I really want to breastfeed, but am finding it very tough. Little boy is said to have a 'lazy latch' and is slightly tongue-tied. I have very large breasts with flat nipples, which doesn't help. The midwives have been very supportive, and several of them have taken the time to sit with me and try to guide me with positioning. My mum was supposed to be taking me to a drop-in clinic on Friday but didn't get to me in time.

After a few days of struggling to bf (little boy was jaundiced and desperately needed the fluids), I caved in and gave him some formula. I bought a breast pump and have managed to express quite a bit, which I add to his formula feeds.

So, at the moment, he is getting a combination of formula, expressed milk and breastmilk. The expressing seems to have helped one nipple to come out a bit, and the baby favours this side. But he can breastfeed for 3 hours at a stretch and still be hungry enough to guzzle down a big bottle of formula afterwards. It makes me feel so inadequate.

I'd be so grateful for any advice or tips. Did this combination approach work for anyone? It's exhausting. I just want what's best for my little boy.

Thanks very much in advance

Sad and desperate MamaLazarou x

Thank you so much for your advice, StarlightMckenzie. I am going to give one of the helplines a ring now to see what they say.

My DH is very supportive, and does all the housework and cooking while I'm bf-ing, but he's back at work part-time already, so I will be on my own all day soon. My mum's pretty useless and I don't have any other family nearby.

Congrats on the little one!!

Where do you live MamaL? Your health visitor should be able to arrange for a breastfeeding nurse to come and see you and check your latch etc and offer some support. I rang mine when I was having trouble but I don't know if its the same in every area though I'm sure it should be.

How did you get on with the helplines today did they give you any advice which helped?

Hoping you have a better day tomorrow x

Hi,
I have always had difficult with breastfeeding...My baby was strictly breastfed for the first two weeks, he didn't gain much weight so the dr advised him to start formula along with bf. he had mixtures of both till 3 months (3 weeks ago) and then now he's strictly on formula because I got tired of pumping. Try to give your baby as much breastmilk as possible but if its at a point its difficult, don't worry the formulas out there are good, baby will just be constipated here and there.

Hi MamaL - you are a Feb antenatal club mum aren't you? You've had a rough time and it sounds like your confidence has been dented a lot .

Starlight has some good advice here. The first and foremost thing I would advise is that you see a properly trained breastfeeding counsellor in person as soon as you possibly can.

Not an HV, not a midwife, not a GP, not a paediatrician, not a dietician or anyone else that thinks they know about breastfeeding. A BFC. Someone with years of training and real experience in breastfeeding who won't derail your bf with bad advice.

A BFC will help you by looking at the tongue tie to see if it needs snipping. They'll help you with positioning and latch. They'll explain how to know when your baby is transferring milk well from you. They'll help you have confidence in your body's ability to bf, and they'll be honest with you about the impact formula will be having on your milk supply,both short and long term. They will help you put a safe plan in place to decrease the ff and increase the bf. The sad truth is that whilst for some very fortunate women mix feeding works, for many more it is the beginning of the end of bf as supply diminishes quickly, particularly if regular ff top-ups are introduced at an early stage whilst milk supply is fragile and not yet established.

However, please be reassured that this is completely reversible, (these threads are full of women who have dropped the formula and returned to full bf) and full bf can certainly be established again - with the right help and support - and confidence in your body's ability to do this!

In the meantime, can I ask some questions? It will help us to tailor advice to you.
How frequently do you bf your lo in 24 hours?
Are you offering both breasts at each feed?
How much formula are you giving him each day?
Is he gaining weight, pooing and weeing regularly and alert and happy?
Are you feeding through the night?

You should also know that even the fullest bf baby can often guzzle a bottle after a bf - it's nothing to do with being hungry and everything to do with how easy it can be to get more milk from a bottle. Do NOT be disheartened by this.

The very best thing to increase your milk supply is to put that baby to the breast - often - and offer both sides at each feed, and even keep on offering side after side.

Keep posting - you will get some superb and reliable advice on this forum. Hopefully tiktok will be along soon as she is the goddess of breastfeeding and is a trained NCT bfc.

Don't be sad and desperate. You've just arrived in the best place to sort this out, so well done!

Congratulations on the birth of your baby, MamaL. VLC is asking all the questions we would need to know the answers to - and that any phone supporter would, too.

Are you ok to say where you live? (which town?) I can have a dig to try to find other local breastfeeding support events - phone is great, but in person is better.

Wow, you're all so lovely and helpful - thank you all so much for your replies. I'll try and answer all your questions:

I live in Sevenoaks, Kent

I called the NCT BF helpline on Sunday. The lady I spoke to was very supportive, and offered me some tips, and told me to call back whenever I needed to.

I BF my little boy about 3 or 4 times in 24 hrs, the rest of the time he is having formula. He very rarely (only about twice, I think) has ever been completely satisfied after a breastfeed. He usually displays hungry signals afterwards, and I end up giving him a bottle.

Yes, I do offer both breasts at each feed.

DS is gaining weight, very alert when awake, weeing and pooing lots. He seems really happy and healthy.

I don't generally BF at night. My episiotomy has become infected (I'm on antibiotics for it now), and it really hurts to sit for extended periods of time. I've been having to get up and walk around, shift position often, which has interfered with the bf-ing.

Thanks once again to everyone who has posted on this thread. For now, I am going to keep trying to increase breastfeeds and reduce formula feeds, and to try not to feel bad about any of it.

Glad you are getting help, and there is some good stuff already posted on here.

Main thing - and I am repeating what others have said, I think - is that bf has to be done often round the clock. 3-4 feeds in 24 hours is not even close to what's needed to build up and maintain a supply with a baby of 2 weeks....so it's crucial to attend to that, and to feed at night. Otherwise, and it's best you are aware of this, your milk supply will dwindle - and I can tell this is not what you want.

Expressing the 'missing' feeds means expressing at least 5 times in 24 hours inc at night, which is a big hassle.

Your midwife should help you with a plan to address all this so you can turn things around.

Good luck!

I'm being discharged from the midwives' care this week, providing my infection improves.

They've been really patient with me, and I'm starting to get the idea that I've pretty much exhausted their knowledge.

Oh dear, so I have already affected my milk supply, that is what I feared the most. I had assumed I still had a chance to build it back up again.

Maybe I'll give it a few more days before succumbing to the formula full-time.

????

No one has suggested you can't restore your milk supply - quite the opposite

If you want to bf, then you will need to bf more often - what's happening now isn't helping but it can be turned round.

Okeydoke, thanks for answering, MamaL. As tiktok says, this is reversible and it is NOT too late, so chin up, OK?

It will require a major shift in strategy though, so you need to mentally prepare yourself to do things very differently in the short term if you want to keep up the bf.

First, have you arranged a face to face visit from a bfc ?

I'd recommend trying to learn how to feed lying down, (bfc can help show you this) it's a complete lifesaver, and I remember sore stitches well.

Secondly, try a 'babymoon'. Get in bed, naked from the waist up, cuddled with the baby, and feed at every little squeak or murmur. And you may find yourself feeding 20+ times in the day - it doesn't matter for now as long as you are comfortable. Your baby needs to signal to your body to make more and more until supply catches up. Do this for a day or better still, two. You'll need someone supportive to be your slave for food drinks and entertainment.

Have a read up on co-sleeping. It's a very real and safe way to keep bf going and get the rest you need, but as with everything, you need to understand the safety guidelines properly.

I'm not going to advise you on how quickly to drop the formula, (I'd be scared to suggest dropping it cold turkey unless it was only a small amount each day) as from what you say, your baby is relying on it a lot right now.

You definitely need a proper plan to scale back the formula in a manageable timescale. You really need a BFC for this.

There is a need to act quickly, I'd say, and the next few days might be quite intensive, but after that things should settle enormously and you should be able to look back on this as part of the completely bananas period of time that is late pregnancy, childbirth and newborn fuzzy phase.

Keep posting, and if you need more info or links on anything, shout up.

Yes, please learn how to feed lying down, it works very well, once you get the hang of it.

This page lists some bf drop ins in Kent, I can't see any on there in Sevenoaks, but hopefully one or more is near you.

Surestart Millmead may have some services, too.

Oh, and it looks like the NCT are pretty active in the area, so they are the right BF helpline to ring.

Sorry if I have misunderstood anyone's posts. I'm sure I used to be quite bright before I got pregnant

Of course I will keep trying, and will do whatever I can if it means I can do what's best for my son.

I have tried expressing twice today - not much luck - though I did successfully bf him for about 20 mins this evening (very painfully indeed - though he seems happy at least). I'm trying to increase the breastfeeds as much as I can.

I have tried feeding lying down, but my breasts are so large, I'm frightened I'll suffocate him!

I will try your suggestion of staying in bed together all day - it's just really bad timing as DH is back at work tomorrow (and I'm panicking enough about that as it is).

I know about the drop-ins, but I have no transport of my own and can't walk far at the moment because of the infection.

I will try and sort out a BFC. I know I sound really feeble... but it just all seems too much for me at the moment.

Thanks again to everyone for all the help you are giving.

You do NOT sound feeble! You sound exactly like a new mum - knackered and worried.

It is a lot to take in, and really hard work in these early days, but it does get soooooooo much easier.

You say the bf is painful, which makes me think you would benefit from someone looking at your latch again.

google 'breastcrawl'. Have a little go.

We are all in your corner, missus.

You're doing the best you can in a tricky situation.

It's possible an NCT BFC might come to you. As vlc says, the painful feeding sounds like bad latch.

Hi MamaL

I had an infected episiotomy too - it hurt way more than the labour! I kept telling people it was hurting, but they just said it was normal - yeah right!! By the time, they realised I had an infection, it had really caught hold - so I understand just how bad it nips!

In addition to the anti-biotics, have you got adequate pain relief? I took a codeine and paracemtoal based pain killer, I think. It won't interfere with the bf-ing. It's really important you feel comfortable enough to learn to feed if you want to establish bf-ing.

I did a lot of my early feeding lying down. Try experimenting with positions that feel comfortable for you.

You sound as though you think people are telling you it's too late. They are not saying that at all... you just need to hang in there. The more you feed LO, the more milk you will produce...

Lots of culture have a 40 day lying in period after a birth when Mum and baby get to cuddle, feed and get waited on. I know you probably can't do that... but just remember, it is early, early days... so be kind to yourself.

Spend as much time cuddling and feeding baby as you can, and you will establish bf-ing. You will.

Personally, I would be avoiding expressed feeds now. Bf-ing is a mom and baby thing, and you need to work on your rhythm together. I would also drop the forumla completely. The hungrier he is, the more he will suck... the more milk you will have. Watch out for signs of dehyrdration, but I personally think this will do him more good than eanything, in the longer term.

Good luck.

Just reading your other post... if you're finding it hard to get out to see a counsellor, have you tried utube - some lovely mums have put some really good stuff on there...

Also - just wondering about your HV. My HV ran the bf-ing support group, and was pretty good. A HV will probably come out, I would imagine....

I really wouldn't worry too much about expressing. Perhaps you're thinking it indicates how little you've got in there??

I could never express much - lots of women can't - yet, like them, I could bf my baby fine. I know lots of people like to express and find it liberating to be able to get someone else to give a bottle - and that's certainly true!! - but for me there was always something a bit unnatural about a pump... I don't think I could relax in the same way as when I was feeding...

Well done for the 20 min feed. Hold the thought that that is great, as it means you have the basic skill to do it. Keep going - do your nipples hurt all the time, or just when you feed?

Hi MamaLazarou and congratulations on the arrival of your DS! I used to see your name on the baby name threads all the time and wondered where you had disappeared to!

I've only just found this thread so sorry if it's coming a bit too late now.

I had a nightmare with breastfeeding (DD lost 20% of birthweight, we were readmitted to hospital for 4 days, she had naso-gastric tube through which she was fed whatever breastmilk I could express and then formula top-ups etc etc)

The midwives never once suggested that I FF full-time (I'm not sure if they're allowed to or not?) and because I was so single minded determined to do it I just kept trying to BF (albeit with eye-wateringly sore nipples)

The HV had pointed out that DD had a very slight tongue-tie and it wasn't until I read the hospital discharge papers that I noticed they attributed everything to a poor latch caused by tongue tie.

At 4 weeks we had the tongue-tie snipped and at 6 weeks I decided that I could no longer cope with my self-imposed mish-mash of mixed feeding and the agony of still trying to exclusively bf. I put the kettle on to prepare a feed and whilst doing so I put DD to the breast in order to try and calm her. For the very first time ever I actually saw and heard her swallow. It had taken us both 6 weeks to get to this point!

My milk supply had been seriously affected and I tried everything to re-establish it (expressing, taking all manner of herbal tablets, drinking 'tit-teas' as DH famously coined them etc)

Six weeks was a long time and I wish wish wish that someone had told me how important it was to try and maintain the milk supply during this time - they tell you to put baby to the breast all the time but when you're in agony (and have blood-blisters on your nipples) sometimes it just isn't possible (plus feeding is not the sole thing you're trying to master with a newborn) Had I known, I would've expressed more, expressed when I couldn't face bf because it may have helped the supply.

I'm no expert but the latch is SO important and this is where the BFC can really really help.

Unfortunately the tongue-tie issue is sadly very over-looked too. My HV said she had come up against various consultants etc who refused to acknowledge the impact that even a slight one can have on bf. It made ALL the difference to my DD.

Who knows, if we had had the op earlier and I had seen the BFC earlier maybe I may have been able to exclusively BF. As it turned out we managed 7.5 months of mixed feeding (the best or worst of both worlds depending on your school of thought!) but for me, at the time it was a huge achievement.

There is masses of support available if you want it - some amazing BFC (I can give you the name of a lady in N London who is an absolute LEGEND!) so if you're still trying to bf/ struggling etc then take all the help you can get. You really are not alone!

Similarly, if you've switched to ff then don't beat yourself up either - trust me, at the time feeding seems like the most important thing but a year down the line it will all seem like a distant memory and so many other things take over.

Most importantly enjoy the time with your new baby - however you choose to feed him!

Sorry if this post is long-winded, I could waffle on and on about the joys/agonies of breast-feeding all night -it totally took over my life for the best part of last year! I hope it's helped in some way. It could be the tongue tie that is preventing a good latch. I'm no expert, so I don't know, just speaking from personal experience.

I wish you all the best whatever you choose.

dear Mamalazarou

Just reading this thread has brought me to tears remembering how much of your story is familiar to me. I too had a hard time with the BF thing despite asking everyone I could for help. My little one would not feed well from the outset and the hospital midwives were unable or unwilling to help me out. I HAD to give my LO formula in the post natal ward as he had had nothing for hours and was crying. My nipples were large and flat and I found it impossible to latch him on.

We struggled on for 12 weeks with BF, formula top up and loads of expressing but he cried every time I tried to breast feed him and only managed a few minutes. I was desperate and worried and frantically looking for answers. I tried HW, GP and eventually a breast consultant (private) and no one could help me. Eventually I went on to all formula as his weight dropped a whole percentile in a week or two. I cried everyday for 6 months and still have my moments now about how crap it turned out. I was so determined to BF that my sanity and my relationship with my precious little boy suffered as a result of the continuing failure.
I sincerely hope you get the help you need and you don't end up like I did, guilty that I didn't do it right and so sad that my first time with my little darling was such an unhappy time.
If you can't master it then don't beat yourself up, FIND alternatives and accept it, sometimes these things are beyond your control and the heartache really isn't worth trying to be ' breastfeeding perfect mummy'.

MamaLazarou, just read your thread. I am in exactly the same position. Husband back at work (very supportive for past 3 weeks at home). No family close by to help me. Also feeding breast and bottle and finidng it difficult. However up to now it is still working....

Are you greek if I may ask?