Baby falling asleep when put on the boob, forced into FF by profs. PLS Help.

[somewhathorrified]

I'm hoping I can condense this down so you don't get bored...

Basically had bad start at BF and didn't get some confidence til day 4, day 5 MW came and weighed him, he'd lost 12% body weight and she sent us to SCBU. At SCBU they tried to keep him over night (although all the tests came back within norms of BF baby), would only let us home if we FF top ups. Baby weighed 2 days later had put on 100grms, so that's good. But now at 10days old he's on 60ml of formula and 15 mins(ish) per boob per feed. I have no idea if my milks 'come in' as I've not got the full, rock hard feeling (although they have grown about a cup size in the last few days and are mildly firmer than b4 and produce white, slightly greasy milk looking stuff).

I've tried to fill him on the breast to reduce FF but he just falls asleep the minute he gets on my boob. MW said to hassle him to wake when he falls asleep which I did, but am finding that he still won't feed as he gets too stressed then won't nap between feeds making him more tired and harder to wake during the next feed. Luckily there's no nipple confusion but I think he prefers bottle to boob because it takes less effort. Don't know what to do, I love BF him and I feel like such a failure. Would love to just stop the bottle FF feeds but the health profs have got me feling like they are breathing down my neck and that I can't chance his weight dipping again.

If anyone has got any suggestions about keeping baby awake, but not stressed when feeding; any suggestions on reducing ff in diet etc I'd really appreciate it.

I was told not to express either. The reasons behind it wasn't clear, but the rationale was roughly that if I was taking milk from my breasts by expressing, there would be less when DD wanted to feed again.

Big

I would second what Mears said, and this is because we did something similar. and it gave us a big birst of confidence as DD did well.

I agree with mears - get one person who is informed and supportive who you trust and work out a plan with them.

I don't understand about not expressing.

Deliberately waking a baby up with all that that implies - blowing, wetting the feet, jiggling and so on - is quite disruptive to a baby and can make a reluctant-to-feed baby switch off from the breast....skin to skin and instant response to feeding cues is kinder and usually more efficient.

But you do need a plan - and with a plan, you can turn this around!

I agree with the posters who have said that 4-5 hours is too long between feeds.

Dd lost quite a lot of weight, and didn't regain her birth weight for 3 weeks. I was told to wake her every 3 hours at night.

Re. being stressed while feeding. Have you tried feeding your ds in the bath? The warm water should soothe him and you and encourage relaxed feeding.

Can greatly empathise with you as I could have written the OP's post in may ways. Have successfully bf two before but No3 (8 days old) just won't take to it. It didn't help that I was very anaemic after the birth owing to naturally low Hb not a bleed (iron count of 6 and had two transfusions - still my count is just over 7). I haven' had the 'milk coming in' engorgement feeling at all. Dd lost 500g though as they knew it was because `i'd been ill and probably had poor supply we didn't have to go to SCBU. I was advised to top up, which has helped- before she only had one wet nappy a day.

She now feeds for hours at a time and is very lazy - falls asleep then cries if `i put her down. TBH I now have very sore nipples owing to the lenght of time she nurses. It's a nightmare. I'm going to try the NCT as I'm a member, just to check the latch but I hope she wakes up a bit soon...

Do you know, I often expressed before a feed was due because that was when I got most milk. If baby woke for a feed just after I expressed I could feel milk letdown and baby got milk. The thing to remember is that the breats is never empty.

As a rule I odn't encourage women to express before 6 weeks as milk supply is being established. However, if milk production is being ineterfered with by the introduction of formula, then expressing is good for stimulation.

Hand expressing is much better than a pump at this stage though IMO.

In this cae though, expressing would not be needed if the baby is allowed unrestricted access to the breast and baby is fixing and sucking well.

I think it is very common for baby to fall asleep at the breast, both mine did. LOts of excellant advice here and agree with mears. One thing that I found helped with both my boys it to block feed. So rather than 15 min each side (where they may not be getting enough of the fatty milk and more thrist quenching milk) I would have one breast for the hour. Once that hour passed and he wanted a feed then i'd use the other. Didnt mean he fed solidly for an hour but it meant if he fell asleep for a little then he'd go back on it. I dont know if this is helpful to you at all but just my experience.

Really appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. I think my local sure start centre has breast feeding peeps, I have a MW appt tomorrow and HV on Tuesday. Might see what they have to say, if nothing sits right I'll get in touch with Sure Start. If still nothing I'll start phoning around the helpline numbers some of you have been kind enough to give me. Thanks again.

I haven't really got any advice; just sending you lots of newbaby and new breastfeeding best wishes...

My DS also fell asleep a lot when feeding. I worried that I was doing something wrong but am pretty sure now I wasn't! Also no real advice but hoping this works out for you. My Sure Start / Children's Centre were great and had a midwife attached to them who would come out and advise on bf issues. My HV gave me her details.

My DD3 now 3 months was admitted to SCBU with 12% loss, breast feeding but she was very sleepy and kept falling asleep. She was jaundice and low blood sugars as a result of my gestational diabetes. In hospital they made me feed 2 hourly and express from each boob after each feed to increase milk supply. What was expressed was then bottle fed to her because she was too sleepy to suckle. The idea is that if you can get the milk into them it will stimulate their appetite and they will feed more.....It was a few miserable days because they would not let us home until she put on weight so had to cope with lack of sleep (mastitis and boob infection at same time!). Once home I hired an electric breast pump and carried on expressing for next week and bottle fed it to her after breast feed, by end of week my milk supply had increased and her appetite had been stimulated enough for me to stop topping her up. I carried on giving one bottle of formula at bedtime (so DH could be involved and I could get to bed). Hope that helps! Good luck, you don't have to give up BF, a week of hard work will get you back on track. By the way you need to be feeding 2 hourly until gaining weight and then 3 hourly between 7a.m and 11p.m until 4 months old.

One of the truths I have learned in my work as a breastfeeding counsellor over the years is that many health professionals don't have a clue about breastfeeding.
A GP during training will get around 2 hours training on breastfeeding, a Health Visitor a little more. Paediatricians fair no better.
Usually the best advice will come from a midwife or HV, but unless they have a special interest and educate themselves then their skill levels in managing breastfeeding is pretty poor.
Your instincts prove this- you are receiving conflicting advice from health professionals- they can't all be right!
NCT counsellors are fantastic, as are La Leche League.
All La Leche League breastfeeding counsellors are experienced Mums who have breastfed, then trained to give support.
Training usually takes around 2 years, with workshops, tutorials, a lot of written work, then examinations to qualify.
The skills these women have are far superior to most health professionals.
I would strongy recommend that you seek out the help of someone who is qualified to help.
If you prefer to find help within the health service, then try to find a lactation consultant, this is a qualification that is rapidly becoming popular, there are some community based professionals, or some are attatched to hospitals. They will have other titles such as "Infant feeding strategist" or "adviser". If you call your local maternity unit ask there if they know of a lactation consultant.

Don't assume that everyone you talk to even qualified doctors have a scoobie. It sounds harsh, but doctors are an arrogant bunch, they sometimes see breastfeeding as trivial, and if they don't know then they will invent advice.

I can be hard to find someone who is qualified to help, but not impossible- you may need to make several phone calls, but don't be afraid to check out their credentials.

These are early days for you and your baby, with the right help you could be enjoying a good breastfeeding relationship within a couple of days.

That is absolutely true msmiggins. Not all midwives have invested time to learn about breast feeding problems and how to solve them. Most medics are hopeless with regard to breastfeeding. It is only when you have an interest that you gain more knowledge.

Mrsmiggins you are so right. I had a good appt with a mw today (mum of 4 too!) baby is now just 15g below birth weight so that's great and she showed me a couple more feeding positions, rechecked latch and is genuinely supportive of BF as opposed to having to advocate it. She re-iterated much of what you guys had said..ditch the FF (as much as possible), just use the boob and express every so often. She's also the first person to actually tell me that I have milk and as such am perfectly capable of feeding adequately. Tbh I think my confidence was smashed by the SCBU and the MiL saying that I'd been starving my baby.

The encouragement and support you guys have shown me is amazing, and it;s so nice not to feel like: a) it;s the end of the world, b)I'm somehow defective. Going to see how the next 24hrs pans out and talk to HV tomorrow. Thanks again all.

Nurse in NICU woke my daughter during feeds by running her thumbnail really quite hard along her foot. It seems to work. They are a bit paranoid in SCBU about % of bodyweight lost and quite dogmatic about to make it up. My daughter's consultant was a lot more laid back about her not feeding than the nurses were. He instructed her to be taken off the glucose drip so that she would get a bit hungry. The sugar was keeping her hunger at bay and she had no motivation to feed at all. She also lost over 10% of her bodyweight, after she came out of NICU (not before, she was pigging out on glucose and EBM through a naso-gastric tube, having a lovely time sleeping)- about 400g from 3350 which is roughly what your LO has lost, but was otherwise well

Glad to see that things are looking up and that you actually had a lovely helpful midwife. I'm sure things will pick up fast from now.

Great to hear you are sounding more positive and confident. And great that at last you have found someone to give you real help. Good to know that you are nearly ready to ditch the formula, your own supply will increase within a very short space of time.
Be kind to yourself, try to relax, let other people take the burden for a while. You are doing the most important job in the world a the moment, your baby has a lucky mother who has taken all this time and effort to breastfeed him.

Hooray! For the power of a woman's body! Hooray for your baby gaining weight! Hooray! Hooray!

(I'm in a good mood today -can you tell?)

You are so correct msmiggins - medics will often invent advice that sounds like common sense to them (I know from experience), and although they are pro-breast feeding it is more important to them that the baby gains weight.

So, sadly , a GP will be more likely advise formula top-ups.

I have found the local lactation consultant a huge help as well as the peer-support breast feeding group.

great news that you are feeling more positive. your confidence will be key. as with most things in life, don't hang out with the ones who shatter your confidence-hang out with the confidence builders

That's good news. Let us know how you get on

I was told (under similar loss of birthweight circumstances) that I should always feed between 12 midnight and 2 am because 1) mums have most milk then 2) helps keep supply up.

I was also told not to let DD go more than 2 hours without a feed (result was round the clock feeding for a while).

The more you feed or express, the better your supply will be. It may seem at the time that you are doing nothing but feeding the baby, but it's worth it.

HV turned up and is really helpful/pro with the BF, said to take him off ff and just use BF, but to keep one ff just b4 bed if we felt we needed the rest. Has given us the address of a BF cafe in the area, so hopefully will get a chance to drop in for a cuppa and some moral support. Am currently living with what feels like DS permanently attatched to boob.

Feel much better and think boobs are filling up a bit

Sounds good

Maybe use the ff for topping up or a feed in late afternoon when your supply can be lower, instead of bedtime?

Nih time is highest time of lactation i thought. Glad tho that you are getting some better support and your confidence is building. I would try and bf at night instead of formula, firstly its really quick and also lovely cuddley way to fall asleep. Also will help boost your supply. When weaning the bedtime feed is often the last to go, to is obviously a very important one i think. x