Should i move to formula?

[Liskey]

I had our little gorl just over 3 weeks ago. She's not regained her bithweight yet of 5lb 5 - she was only born at 36 weeks following an emergency c-section.

She never breast fed well - fell asleep after 10 mins and won't wake up to feed. So been feeding her expressed breast milk - found out on tue she hadn't regained her weight so a trip to hospital where told she isn't getting enough to thrive so me and DH are now trying to get her to take more in each feed.

I'm finding this nearly impossible now - despite helpful HV getting me a double breast pump - i'm not pumping enough times i think to maintain supply as only managing 5/6 times a day and what with feeding her and trying to settle her down - can take several hours i think its adversely affecting my poor DH and that I'm not enjoying being little Ellie's mum right now. We're stressed she's not going to gain more weight by sunday when she's being reweighed and that we're trying to feed every 3 hours which is very hard work with her.

Any reassurances, please? I keep crying at the thought of formula as I've always wanted to breast feed her but it just seems to be an impossible situation at the moment.

You'll probably get loads of good advice on maintaining exclusive breastfeeding here but I also wanted to say that it doesn't have to be either/or and you may be able to mix feed.

I did this with DD from week 2 as she had lost a lot of weight and we carried on until I chose to stop feeding her.

Mix feeding can compromise supply though, but I just wanted to mention it so that if you do feel like you are going to use formula you may not have to give up b/fing all together.

Liskey, why not see if there are any breastfeeding groups in your area?

the La Leche League groups are (IME) very, very supportive and can give help and advice on keeping going with breastfeeding, or with supplementing, if that's what you decide to do

La Leche League Barnsley: - 01226 713787

What do you REALLY want to do??

I had to go from (unsuccessfully) breastfeeding ds2 due to health problems, but being honest I probably wouldnt have carried on much longer because it was just such hard work and I wanted to start enjoying him rather than manhandling my breasts every 2 hours or other people doing it, being sore, ds2 being upset because not feeding well etc etc.

He's now ff and has been for a few weeks. I know lots of people think ff is the work of the devil but really it isnt. The midwife in hospital reminded me that he had got 5 days of colostrum and also that we dont live in a third world country and ff was not going to do him any harm (no its not perfect like bf but it is a substitute).

Listen to yourself and do what is going to make you and your baby happy. Dont listen to anyone telling you do this or do that, its all about you two

She's not breatfeeding at all now as we don't think she feeds well enough to gain any weight - she's soley on ebm in a bottle. We've lost all confidence at the moment with her feeding.

I'm sure others will be along with BF advice; but do not feel that Forula is a failure. I had to 'top up' DS1 from 2 weeks after he had been starving. We continued to mix feed for months and it was absolutely the right decision at the time; seeing my little one full and happy was better than sticking to a principal which just didn't work.
I hope the BF comes together; but you have not failed if it doesn't

Congratulations on your new baby. The first few weeks are very stressful for everyone whilst you get to know your new baby.

As Ghouls said, you will get lots of advice and support on here. It is fantastic that you are so determined to breastfeed and you need to make sure you get all the support you can.

My advice is to forget about doing anything at all apart from feeding the baby and sleeping. After the first few weeks (4-5) things do get easier so it is not for long. I presume your DH is at work during the week? Do you have anyone who can come and help you occasionally? Get DH to do an internet shop with very easy things to cook, and forget about everything else for a bit.

Are you only feeding her from a bottle of expressed milk or are you breastfeeding her directly and topping up with expressed milk? A newborn baby (don't have any experience of the premature aspect) will feed at least 8-10 times a day so more often than every three hours, and some of those feeds can last 40 minutes to an hour. Try to get comfy, either lying down or on the sofa, and relax.

Could you be a bit more specific about the falling asleep very quickly vs being difficult to settle? Does she fall asleep and then wake up as soon as you move her? When she is difficult to settle have you tried breastfeeing her (even if she fed within the past 30 minutes!)

Also - is she happy, alert, regularly having wet and dirty nappies? How much weight did she lose and what does she weigh now?

You are doing really well. Relax and concentrate on your baby, and we will all be thinking of you and ready with support when you need it.

well, have a good think about what you would like in the long run

this is a choice that only you can make.

it isn't too late to go back to breastfeeding, partially or exclusively, but you will need help from someone who knows what they're talking about to do it.

if you WANT to switch to formula then, again, that's your decision.

really, at this point you could go either way, so I would say have another talk with your DH and think about what you'd like long-term.
Formula feeding does have risks, (yes, even in the uk!) is more expensive and more time consuming (tho it might not seem like that for you right now)

why not give LLL a call, they may be able to suggest some things that would make breastfeeding easier for you right now.
bear in mind that a baby is much more efficient at getting milk than a pump, so 10 minutes of feeding may well just be fine for her! and what you're pumping isn't an indication of how much you're making

Sorry - cross posted with you giving more information.

I do second speaking to LLL and going to a breastfeeding group.

Has she been checked for tongue tie? What advice did the hospital give?

Cheers for the replies.

She's not been checked for tongue tie - she didn't have a problem latching on I don't think - just with continuing to feed.

The hospital midwives were the ones who suggested moving her to bottle as she was losing so much weight trying to feed on demand. She lost over 10% of her body weight in the first 3 days.

Recently she's been accepting 40ml feeds and breast feeding at night but she's not gained enough weight with this. we're trying to encourage her to take bigger bottle feeds of 50ml at least every 3 hours.

Thank you all for the words of support.

cleanandclothed We had been giving her ebm during the day and then soley breastfeeding at night. When she breast feeds she only feeds for 10 mins before falling asleep - then waking up when I try amd move her back to the moses basket and not settling for hours - she does this when we feed her at night with ebm as well. She likes breastfeeding and it soothes her when she's been crying as when I offer her breast after a bottle she'll accept it feed - and then be sick She seems to drink a bottle down really quickly even with slow teats on them she can drink the milk within 5/10 mins.

I don't want to switch to formula but I do want to make sure she's healthy and not put myself through the wringer too much. As even midwife is saying I need to consider my health as I look wrecked.

OK, keeping this active for you and hopefully tiktok or someone equally experienced and helpful will be along soon.

Obviously weight loss needs to be taken seriously, but there are other considerations as well to tell how the baby is doing. Is she now gaining weight? My DS took 4 weeks to get back up to his birth weight, and looked very skinny for the first 4 months, but was always alert and (reasonably!) happy. It sounds as if you are doing really well - I would encourage you to breast feed her first whenever you can, and then to 'top up' with a bottle afterwards - this will help stimulate your supply and will keep reminding her what breastfeeding is like.

Oh you sound so like I was! Those very long nights..... Have you tried breastfeeding her lying down so you can both snooze together? How do you feel about co-sleeping? DS shared our bed for about 12 weeks - I was admanant he wouldn't at first but it really helped us to get through those first few weeks. You may prefer to have the bed just for yourself and the little one if you can move DH out (we slept 3 together but it is personal preference). You have to take precautions (no co-sleeping if an adult has been drinking, for instance, and try to position the baby away from pillows and duvets) - ask for advice in the sleeping section and people will be happy to help. It was a godsend not to need to move DS once he fell asleep! And then you just feed and snooze the night away - and the day too if you feel like it!

Hi Liskey -
Congratulation on the birth of Ellie. The first few weeks are tough and please dont forget you had an emerg c-section which can take time to bounce back from (both physically & emotionally).

I had my dd at 37 weeks by emerg c - section and she weighed 6lbs 3. she lost the full 10% in the first week an we ended up in hospital. She was super sleepy from prolonged jaundice and we had to wake her every 2-3 hours for a feed for teh 1st 4 weeks which was pretty exhausting.

I nearly gave up breastfeedings altogether as it was hardwork and i was never sure she was getting enough but all the health professionals (including a bf counsellor) that we saw gave me lots of support to continue even though it was hard and we were exhausted. It took time for her to gain weight but we persevered with teh bf and then added a bottle of formula in from 6 weeks. Now at 10 weeks I bf at night and formula during the day. I never thought I would get to this point but so glad we persevered.

I found it took time to build up a milk supply but keep expressing as much and as often as you can to increase the supply.

In conjunction with your HV I would work through what is best for Ellie right now - it is not too late to go back to Bf'ing at a later date if you continue to express now to maintain your supply.

Good luck xx

How did the weighing go?

Hi

Cheers - She's put on a tiny amount of weight 20 grams from Thursday to Sunday (and in total 50 grams from Tuesday to Sunday). Is this really bad for a premature and ebm baby?

She's due another weigh in tomorrow and I'm worried we'll be referred back up to hospital again - which I won't be able to do as I can't drive at the mo and DH is back at work. I really don't want to go back to the hospital as well to wait 5 hours to see the pediatrician and be told she is healthy - as both midwives and HV say she looks very healthy its just her lack of weight which is making me worry - one of the midwives said she is a plodder.

Well the great think is she is putting weight on! No experience of premature, but DS was a 'plodder' - stayed right at the bottom of the weight charts for about 4 months, and then just started putting weight on properly.

It is also great that the m/w and hv say she looks healthy - I presume lively, lots of wet/dirty nappies, and yellow colour poo rather than green or any other colour?

Sounds a pain to go to the hospital - we ended up going twice to see the paeditrician just to be told yes he is fine just a bit slow to gain wieght, so I will keep my fingers crossed that tomorrow goes well, but the important thing is that you are getting the right support and you feel comfortable with what you are being told and how you are feeding her.

It is so difficult just to relax - which is why I wanted to post to say we have been through a very similar experience and ds is now actually quite chubby!

I'd try to maintain the bfing. x

liskey is the problem that she falls asleep when bf?
My ds was like this. The only way to keep him awake for the first few weeks (he was born c section at 38 weeks) was to strip him. I mean, take his clothes off so he wasn't too comfortable, not in a cruel way to stay awake. He just wanted to snuggle and go to sleep but i was worried because he was jaundiced and wanted to flush him out!!
Try not to worry about the weight thing. As long as you are getting lots of wet nappies and she is well in herself, try not to obsess about the weight charts. My 2 kids were both near the bottom of these charts for ages, but you have to have confidence in yourself. Sounds like yr midwife is happy so take heart from that.
Like someone else said, why not just literally go to bed with her and feed and sleep for the next few days. Hopefully you will both get some rest.

If you feel that you would be happy ff, then be proud of yourself for giving it a go and know that she has had lots of protection and natural goodness so far.

Good luck

sorry, also forgot to say, don't worry about the being sick part. Lots of babies do this and although it looks like a lot, it isn't. Loads of babies are sick after every feed and still thrive.
Also, try to remember that bf is not about quantity. If she is only 5 lb in weight her little tummy will be tiny and she only needs a little bit often to keep her going!

Most newborns fall asleep after have what seems like a tiny feed. They have tiny tummys and will feed when hungry. Re the ebm i;d be careful of nipple confusion and stick to straight out the boob if you can. It is hard in the early days (but you'll find babies who are ff also have lots of worries for their parents too). Stick with it. It is worth it, it does get easier and it is a magical wonderful experience once you both get the hang of it. And you'll feel super proud and she'll be getting the perfect food made just for her. Congratulations btw. Sorry you had emer section, is hard as from expereicne i found the bfing hard after section at 28 weeks with ds1 and was first time mum too. Had to be very bloody minded and determined

Hi

HV was round yesterday and weighed Ellie again - she's now rgained her birthweight 2420Kg/5.5lbs and then the health visitor said though she'd put on weight it was only 3oz in a week so not really enought still! But she didn't refer us back to hospital as she looked so healthy in herself - she wasn't keen on me trying breastfeeding again and wants me to stick to ebm

However last night I did give her a bf at 2am - which on and off lasted for about 45 mins in total (about 3.30 realtime!) which is longer than she's lasted before.

Hi Liskey

It does sound very strange advice your helath visitor is giving re breastfeeding - have you been able to speak to one of the helplines or get to a breastfeeding cafe?

Fabulous about regaining the birth weight - and that she is lively and healthy - those are the important things.

I still keep hoping tiktok will come on the thread

I'm here

Liskey - I agree that some of the stuff you have been told about bf and what to do sounds a bit strange....not surprised you have been confused about what to do.

I wonder if you have tried to get real life help from another source? A call to any of the bf helplines would be a good start.

Sounds like the HV wants to know exactly how much she is getting, and maybe worries that the baby is still not managing to get sufficient when bf direct. You could maybe seek a second opinion about this?

Meantime, lots of skin to skin, so you can respond to each and every little feeding cue instantly, will help. Expressing to maintain a milk supply has to be done at least 8 times in 24 hours inc at night which is a massive bore for most people so getting her on to the breast direct will be a massive time saver for you!

Cheers for that.

I will try and give one of the helplines a call - I can't go out and get help as I can't drive yet due to the c-section eve though there are some groups round ere I believe. I'd like to get her weighed before a bf ideally so I could see how much she takes.

I'm keeping up with her present needs but know I'm not expressing enough as I just can't do the 8 times.